entropy
Moderator
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posted June 20, 2013 05:18 AM
quote:
Thats a 1350,i think done on the same day as Ralph ran the production zx14r to 208
1650 class records are 223mph for SCTA, Ask Landspeed Larry about that one
and looks like its an open record for AMA /bubs
Greg,
223mph: what class are referring to?
karl
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joseph702
Zone Head
Posts: 598
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posted June 20, 2013 09:20 AM
Iv never raced a mile yet but drag race and wach a lot of the racing up loring Maine . With 42 psi start what would it end with ? I know after a drag race I gaine 2-4 lbs depending on our side temp and stuff .
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new14rider
Novice Class
Posts: 76
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posted June 20, 2013 11:42 AM
quote:
quote:
At Bonneville I will probably use 42 psi (you don't want a wide tire patch as on pavement). The salt needs to be cut through (not literally) with skinny tires..... less drag and less slip..... The higher the better.
newrider,
hmmmm.... where did that strategy come from????
i sure don't suscribe to it, but i'm always listening
karl
I just found an article from Utah Salt Flats Racing Association. There are many articles like it on-line.
http://www.saltflats.com/traction.html
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new14rider
Novice Class
Posts: 76
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posted June 20, 2013 12:03 PM
quote:
Iv never raced a mile yet but drag race and wach a lot of the racing up loring Maine . With 42 psi start what would it end with ? I know after a drag race I gaine 2-4 lbs depending on our side temp and stuff .
Tire warmers (read heating instructions for BST carbon wheels!) They will get the air in your tires nice and warm, bring you close to running temps and you can adjust the air pressure before you run. BUT................. expensive when compared with filling your tires with nitrogen........
I would rather trust nitrogen in my tires more so, because nitrogen doesn't contain trace amounts of water as air does. The water heats up in the tires, vaporizes, and has more expansion than nitrogen. Simply put, even if you use tire warmers, I don't think they heat the tire enough to vaporize the water fully giving you a true tire pressure close to running high friction salt at 200 mph+ if that makes sense.......... Nitrogen will not expand as much as air at high temps. Some people believe the water in tire's air will condense and cause your tires to be off balance as well..... I have never seen any test done on that!! could be........................
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 20, 2013 12:23 PM
 Edited By: entropy on 20 Jun 2013 20:30
new14rider,
Last Sept at Bonneville's World Of Speed we sure didn't follow the advice of "the higher the better" rear tire pressure.
We ran a grooved Bridgestone Battlax BT-003 Racing 190/50 @ 30psi, experienced about 6% tire "slippage".
At that event my naturally aspirated salt bike set the SCTA MPS/F 1650 record at 225.137mph. 
(no help from the wind)
joseph702,
I've never measured tire pressure after an asphalt pass, don't know if it significantly increases psi.
FYI, last july at Loring my asphalt bike ran a Michelin Power One 190/50 at 25psi w/about 4% tire "slippage".
It set the Loring 1.5mi MPS/F 1650 record @ 235.250 (230.1 at 1.0mi)
(nice lil tailwind)
Both bikes had similarly built 280hp+ NA motors, so I am not at advising those tire pressures for a 200hp ZX14
karl
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Oz Booster
Expert Class
Posts: 230
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posted June 20, 2013 02:27 PM
Sory Karl and New14rider
after commenting on the 1350 class being wrong i actualy then quoted the APS F 1350 
I'll pay penance at the Black and White
i run 42-45 psi
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 20, 2013 02:38 PM
quote:
...
I'll pay penance at the Black and White
...
Greg,
done & DOUBLE DONE!!!!!
see you in september
karl
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joseph702
Zone Head
Posts: 598
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posted June 20, 2013 05:16 PM
Thanks entropy , I'll run 40 psi to start and go up and down and take data before and afer every run . I'm gana do the loring 1.5 mile in September. I unserstand with ur power needing lower psi .
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Flyboy
Pro
Posts: 1536
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posted June 20, 2013 07:05 PM
Edited By: Flyboy on 21 Jun 2013 03:18
New14rider,
Please pick up a book on airplanes and aerodynamics. Your little mirrors bend whichever way you want, will cost you 2-5 mph. You need as small a footprint as possible. Have someone take pictures of yourself on the bike from the front. You, the rider don't want to be seen.-- Mainly your head and arms.
Have you lost weight? Taken off the end piece on your handlebars, recessed your lights etc. taped up your screws and all holes, learned to ride with your face titled sideways....etc. And don't forget taking off your breaks when you ride. Of course for the mile courses you might want to leave them on. Also learn to ride with your butt off the seat. Better aerodynamics. There are a lot of little secrets-- Good luck. Hope you do well.
____________
'There's more living in five minutes flat-out on a bike than some men have in an entire life'.
"The World's Fastest Indian"
One fast red ZX-14,
Three World and four National Land Speed Records,
One faster red and white Cessna Turbo 210
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Oz Booster
Expert Class
Posts: 230
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posted June 20, 2013 07:28 PM
Removing front brakes has its good and bad, good side is less friction and they don't get salt damage, bad is loading unloading and generally pushing around, thats where you find just how often you use them 
Hope to see all my distant friends in Sept
Just have to get these bikes finished and in the boat in the next 2 weeks
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 21, 2013 02:40 AM
you guys would do well to listen to Oz Booster (Greg) carefully, ask questions.
Not only does he have more salt experience than anyone else here (likely exception of Doug Meyer), but (although he'll deny it), he's also a really nice guy.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 21, 2013 02:52 AM
Edited By: entropy on 21 Jun 2013 10:58
quote:
Thanks entropy , I'll run 40 psi to start and go up and down and take data before and afer every run . I'm gana do the loring 1.5 mile in September. I unserstand with ur power needing lower psi .
joseph,
Loring in Sept is iffy, Tim won't run it unless they get a bunch more entries.
No way you can do July?
If I were you, i wouldn't spend time fretting about rear tire psi, put it at 40psi and leave it there.
You have so many other things to get under yr belt which make a much bigger difference in mph.
Biggest mph factors for a stock motor bike which is geared correctly are:
1. tailwind,
2. tuck,
3. rpm strategy (especially in 1st & 2nd gear).
Unless you have BIG hp, rear tire pressure is much more a safety factor than a performance factor.
You do have an air shifter, yes?
Are you at stock length?
Do you data log? On a stock motor bike, i don't worry much about AF, but rpm & TPS logs are a huge help in fine tuning your riding technique (rpm strategy)
karl
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Flyboy
Pro
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posted June 21, 2013 09:19 AM
quote:
You mentioned 4600ft you aiming at Bonneville ?
Take a tall sproket anyway , i have found you rarely go much slower with the unlimited distance geared too high , gets you in the ballpark then when you know your speeds you can optimise gearing to get the last mph or so
in 2011 we were running a pretty std busa when the race bike did not clear customs in time
and playing with tires testing , one of the options was a lsr tire mounted on a custom rim, and the only gearing we had was 34t , busa was otherwise running a 40t rear
busa ran consistant 186mph with the 40t and consistant 182 in 5th with the 34 t
I think a lot of guys under gear there bikes and discount torque , max speed may not be at peak hp but somewhere lower , gearing options let you find out
If you don't know about this site it will help you- http://www.gearingcommander.com
If you're going to Bonneville, especially BUB, you can expect a density altitude of around 6,500 feet or worst. Ground alt. 4,330 ft. and temperatures 88-100 degrees. The most RPM I got out there was around 10,800. Your newer bike may be different. This includes running without an air filter.
I carried 30 pounds of ballast on the rear wheels.
You must be in your tightest tuck at least three miles before the first timing light because the bike accelerates soooo slowly on the salts.
Bill
____________
'There's more living in five minutes flat-out on a bike than some men have in an entire life'.
"The World's Fastest Indian"
One fast red ZX-14,
Three World and four National Land Speed Records,
One faster red and white Cessna Turbo 210
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Oz Booster
Expert Class
Posts: 230
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posted June 21, 2013 02:19 PM
Karl is too kind
I'm bumbling around like everone else learning lots each year , but took onboard info and help from the guys going fast before me like Noonan,Mc Vicar and Assen, and also talking to and comparing setup with other guys during the meeting ,
There are no big secrets like drag racing, and records are transitional, if your good enough to get one you have it for a while then someone comes along and does better , that takes nothing away from the time and effort it took to get it , and anyone who can better a record which is essentially a running log of everyone who has gone fastest with a similar combination over 60+ yrs of record keeping , should be proud of there results
That density altitude is hard on NA bikes but real nice for turbo  , our fastest runs have always been DA 6800-7300 ft
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joseph702
Zone Head
Posts: 598
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posted June 21, 2013 07:55 PM
Entropy , no air shifter , 10 in over stock but can go to 6 over . Motor is stock bore with wossner pistons 13.5 , stage 2 head . Ceramic wheel bearings , ecu was flashed to 11,300 . July I can do motor is not in bike yet and need to dyno tune it after . Too much work and no time
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 22, 2013 02:03 AM
quote:
Entropy , no air shifter , 10 in over stock but can go to 6 over . Motor is stock bore with wossner pistons 13.5 , stage 2 head . Ceramic wheel bearings , ecu was flashed to 11,300 . July I can do motor is not in bike yet and need to dyno tune it after . Too much work and no time
joseph,
IMO:
go to 6 over
GET A GOOD AIRSHIFTER !!!!!!!
some people argue with me, but using all avail rpm/getting out of the hole hard in LSR = significant mph
Very hard to do this while foot shifting
do you at least have a shiftlight?
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joseph702
Zone Head
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posted June 22, 2013 02:19 PM
Yes have shift light and very good at shifting high rpms. But I'll look into a air shifter .
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Flyboy
Pro
Posts: 1536
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posted June 22, 2013 10:21 PM
Forget a shifter on the salts--
____________
'There's more living in five minutes flat-out on a bike than some men have in an entire life'.
"The World's Fastest Indian"
One fast red ZX-14,
Three World and four National Land Speed Records,
One faster red and white Cessna Turbo 210
|
riaansh
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted June 23, 2013 09:20 AM
quote:
New14rider,
Please pick up a book on airplanes and aerodynamics. Your little mirrors bend whichever way you want, will cost you 2-5 mph. You need as small a footprint as possible. Have someone take pictures of yourself on the bike from the front. You, the rider don't want to be seen.-- Mainly your head and arms.
Have you lost weight? Taken off the end piece on your handlebars, recessed your lights etc. taped up your screws and all holes, learned to ride with your face titled sideways....etc. And don't forget taking off your breaks when you ride. Of course for the mile courses you might want to leave them on. Also learn to ride with your butt off the seat. Better aerodynamics. There are a lot of little secrets-- Good luck. Hope you do well.
Is this something you can google or is this experience. Interesting post buddy. The other day during a top speed run i picked up 400 revs by only keeping my head down and more behind the fairing. Could not believe the difference it makes. Your head should be more to the one side? can you explain more please.
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Oz Booster
Expert Class
Posts: 230
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posted June 23, 2013 02:00 PM
Helmet profile ,
I have tried when running naked to tip my head but continually run wide , do not try it on a road without taking this into account
for those that have seen my fuel tanks you know how i deal with it now ,
Busa is streetfighter type hammered right where the chin sits and the zx14 is cut like Roy and others have posted in here
Interesting above 240mph its less relevant as the "bow wave" of air gets bigger and your personally more out of the wind , first time i reached this speed and it all went quiet i was checking tach and speedo thinking i was slowing , it was just the lack of wind noise i was experiancing
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riaansh
Expert Class
Posts: 195
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posted June 24, 2013 10:20 AM
quote:
Helmet profile ,
I have tried when running naked to tip my head but continually run wide , do not try it on a road without taking this into account
for those that have seen my fuel tanks you know how i deal with it now ,
Busa is streetfighter type hammered right where the chin sits and the zx14 is cut like Roy and others have posted in here
Interesting above 240mph its less relevant as the "bow wave" of air gets bigger and your personally more out of the wind , first time i reached this speed and it all went quiet i was checking tach and speedo thinking i was slowing , it was just the lack of wind noise i was experiancing
240 mph is fast. At 200 the wind noise is loud. To me it''s difficult to get out of the wind. Do you have more info on positioning yourself for a high speed run.
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Oz Booster
Expert Class
Posts: 230
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posted June 24, 2013 02:22 PM
I can tell you how i ride,may not suit everyone
To start with i am long and slim, so i have difficulty getting behind the screen esp on our 750 (resemble a dog humping a football), but my shoulders are not catching as much wind as some , one of our team Kim is much smaller than me and she is 9mph faster on the little bike , much easier for me on the busa or 14
I ride in a jockey crouch, balls of the feet on the pegs, bum off the seat, elbows in and arms acting like a steering damper against the tank , hands holding the switch gear more than the grips
If you have ridden much on dirt you will be familar with the different and i think more controllable feel of standing on the pegs rather than sitting on the seat
the foot pegs are spaced back with adaptor plates esp on the naked zx14 to push yourself against the wind rather than pull on the bars
on the suzukis i flip the shifter shaft for reverse pattern shifting , much easier for that 5-6 shift at 225mph
14 would need a rearset to do same, then some are not legal because the pegs do not fold (depending which event and rules your running to )
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mrshooff
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted June 24, 2013 06:15 PM
@new14rider where did you find those true flush mount turn signals
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 26, 2013 06:50 AM
quote:
Forget a shifter on the salts--
there are those (like me) who do not subscribe to foot shifting even on the salt.
Every lil bit helps, especially in the 2.0mi leading up to the "quarter".
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cliffrandall
Zone Head
Posts: 757
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posted June 26, 2013 02:01 PM
Note to Flyboy........Is that you Doug?
Cheers,
Cliff
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