weighmaster
Expert Class
Posts: 301
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posted January 01, 2013 02:51 AM
motorcycle wheel design inquiry
I was wondering why there are so many motorcycle wheel designs and what the Engineering is behind them. For example, is it better to have 5 spokes that split into 10 using a Y shape or is it better to just have 10 spokes? Other questions are how far out from the center line of the wheel need the spokes span? What about those off center spokes what are the advantages/disadvantages of those?
There are so many different designs and I wonder which is the best for overall strength for the least amount of weight.
I am not a wheel designing Engineer but I've read that triangular shapes (such as a trellis frame) are very strong. That is probably why they use them on cranes, support structures for concert stages, antenna towers, some motorcycle frames (such as Ducati)... So why then all the different wheel/spoke designs? Why not just keep it simple and have 4 "triangles" which would be 8 spokes in the wheel, equally spaced at 45 degrees each?
It seems to me that means between extremes is a good rule to follow so since I've seen solid wheels (which can be considered one "spoke") and some wheels with up to 20 spokes, it seems like the happy medium would be around 10 spokes.
Another question is should the spokes all be the same as far as thickness and alignment or is it better to have some thicker than others?
Yet another question is should the spokes be only 1 wide or is it better to go 2 wide? That is, have 2 smaller parallel spokes, one biased more towards the inside and one biased more towards the outside rather than just one larger spoke in that position.
I suppose a good method might be to look at a few rims that have been crashed and see where the weak parts are and then reinforce those.
It seems kinda strange to me they offer so many different wheel designs. I would think the motorcycle Engineers would test which design is the best and then have different widths of that design to accommodate different width tires (such as 160, 180, 200)...
  
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Wheelie
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Old Man
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posted January 01, 2013 03:32 AM
Troll.
wee
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mick46
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posted January 01, 2013 06:08 AM
Dick
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2012 ZZR-1400
Alien Frogskin Green
Brocks CT Meg, PCV & QuickShifter, Brembo M4 Monoblocs, Grimeca 320mm discs, Nitron Race shock, Gilles rearsets , adjusters and TCA axle nut, Supersprox 42T, DID nickel plate X-ring, HEL brake lines, bar risers, shorty levers, tail tidy, Zero Gravity screen, RandG spools and bar ends, GPR V4 damper.... Done !
1999 Hayabusa , stretched lowered and a 60 shot !
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Bently
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posted January 01, 2013 06:15 AM
Head
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eklipse636
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ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted January 01, 2013 07:04 AM
quote:
I was wondering why there are so many motorcycle wheel designs and what the Engineering is behind them. For example, is it better to have 5 spokes that split into 10 using a Y shape or is it better to just have 10 spokes? Other questions are how far out from the center line of the wheel need the spokes span? What about those off center spokes what are the advantages/disadvantages of those?
There are so many different designs and I wonder which is the best for overall strength for the least amount of weight.
I am not a wheel designing Engineer but I've read that triangular shapes (such as a trellis frame) are very strong. That is probably why they use them on cranes, support structures for concert stages, antenna towers, some motorcycle frames (such as Ducati)... So why then all the different wheel/spoke designs? Why not just keep it simple and have 4 "triangles" which would be 8 spokes in the wheel, equally spaced at 45 degrees each?
It seems to me that means between extremes is a good rule to follow so since I've seen solid wheels (which can be considered one "spoke") and some wheels with up to 20 spokes, it seems like the happy medium would be around 10 spokes.
Another question is should the spokes all be the same as far as thickness and alignment or is it better to have some thicker than others?
Yet another question is should the spokes be only 1 wide or is it better to go 2 wide? That is, have 2 smaller parallel spokes, one biased more towards the inside and one biased more towards the outside rather than just one larger spoke in that position.
I suppose a good method might be to look at a few rims that have been crashed and see where the weak parts are and then reinforce those.
It seems kinda strange to me they offer so many different wheel designs. I would think the motorcycle Engineers would test which design is the best and then have different widths of that design to accommodate different width tires (such as 160, 180, 200)...
I would email the engineers on that one. We do not know anything around here.
____________
Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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Lucky14
Pro
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posted January 01, 2013 11:17 AM
Again, the best path for you:
____________
You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
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weighmaster
Expert Class
Posts: 301
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posted January 02, 2013 03:12 AM
Anyone have any idea? Sometimes I wonder why they just don't just use a simple design such as 8 equi-spaced spokes that are "aimed" at the center of the hub (not offset). I also wonder if they can use a combination of casting and forging as a compromise between low weight and cost. Also, I don't think 4 spoke wheels are common but I wonder if those would be a good lightweight design.
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted January 02, 2013 05:40 AM
quote:
Anyone have any idea? Sometimes I wonder why they just don't just use a simple design such as 8 equi-spaced spokes that are "aimed" at the center of the hub (not offset). I also wonder if they can use a combination of casting and forging as a compromise between low weight and cost. Also, I don't think 4 spoke wheels are common but I wonder if those would be a good lightweight design.
You should put your resume in at Kawasaki or Suzuki. Sounds like you got great ideas. I bet they never thought of that.
____________
Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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1badzx12r
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posted January 02, 2013 05:44 AM
 Edited By: 1badzx12r on 2 Jan 2013 13:46
quote:
Anyone have any idea? Sometimes I wonder why they just don't just use a simple design such as 8 equi-spaced spokes that are "aimed" at the center of the hub (not offset). I also wonder if they can use a combination of casting and forging as a compromise between low weight and cost. Also, I don't think 4 spoke wheels are common but I wonder if those would be a good lightweight design.
https://www.google.com/search?q=3+spoke+motorcycle+wheel&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=1jnkUL7LFebE2QXE4ICAAg&ved=0CD8QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=552
THE 3 SPOKE DESIGN WAS OUT FOR YEARS work perfect .. Then some dumbass decided 10 is better
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 02, 2013 06:42 AM
quote:
You should put your resume in at Kawasaki or Suzuki.
Sounds like you got great ideas.
I bet they never thought of that.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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weighmaster
Expert Class
Posts: 301
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posted January 03, 2013 07:50 PM
Edited By: weighmaster on 4 Jan 2013 03:53
I think 10 spokes would be better than just 3. Some wheels 3 spoke wheels (like that of the ZX-12) are quite heavy. Galespeed makes both 5 and 10 spoke wheels and the 10 spoke version is lighter.
I was just thinking that since the ZX-10 wheels are 6 spoke and the ZX-14 wheels are 10 spoke (5 branching into 10), possibly a good compromise would be 8 spoke.
It seems like the technology of wheels is not very advanced considering the # of decades they have been making them. I would hope that someone would have found a way to make a good light strong cheap wheel by now like some wheels that are actually lighter than the tires (120/70/17 and 190/50/17) mounted on them. It seems like stock (bare) wheels are heavier than those tires which are typically about 9 and 14 pounds respectively.
As far as putting in my resume, I don't want to work at a motorcycle company. My dream is to become a moderator so I can moderate in moderation.
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