Y2KZX12R
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posted November 28, 2011 05:50 AM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 28 Nov 2011 14:54
Finally found a little time for some fun at Atco..
With the Thanksgiving holiday time off, and a few nice days here in the northeast we setup the land speed racing bike to have some drag racing fun and make a few passes before the end of the year. It was nice to have a little time to do something fun for a change instead of spending my days in the engine shop.
The weather for late November was unusually nice. So we packed up here in Connecticut and headed down to Atco NJ to see what this combo might do in the quarter mile.
We got to the track on Saturday and rolled the bike out of the trailer. There wasn't many cars or bikes there so we were hoping to get a bunch of passes in.
The bike had never been to a drag strip before so we didn't know what to expect from it. The rear suspension , rear shock and Hays 6 lever slider clutch were all set to a suggested setting to start with. The gearing was 17/46 and the A/F was set to 12.6 on the dyno with MRX-01 fuel.
The bike in its land speed configuration is heavy at 493 pounds (668 with RG suited up) with the dry sump system and tank, a full size radiator and electric water pump. This bike can be run for as long as you want. Switch the Hays convertible clutch over to lockup mode and we could ride it the 3 hour drive home if we wanted to. No auto tranny etc.
Here's a dyno graph of the bike on the dyno with last years cams. We tested other cams this year and found more power in it sense this dyno graph.
Its first pass ever down the track was 8.13 at 168. We knew right away the gearing was off from looking at the data logger. The air fuel was 13.4 at the top end and we needed more gear. A lot more gear. As you can see the 60 ft time of 1.31 showed this. The bike showed no signs of trying to wheelie. I had Rickey shift it at a lower rpm on the first pass so we could get some data. About 15 hp below the peak power.
We started to put the 49 tooth rear sprocket on the bike and realized we didn't have it in the trailer. So all we could do was make another pass in the same configuration.
On the second pass we shifted it at a higher rpm so the engine would average about 15 hp more. It bumped off the rev limiter in 1st and second gears at about 12,000 rpm.
The mph picked up but the gearing was so far off for the bike to come out of the hole aggressively so there was no chance for the bike to run 7's. The 4-5 shift occurred at about 1250 feet down the track, so we were essentially going threw the quarter mile in 4 gears.
This engine is a 1570 5 mil stroker revving to over 12,000 rpm so it really needs the gear.
We all felt that once we got the proper gear in the bike, played with the slider clutch, and rear suspension the bike would run deep into the 7's. Shed some weight like in an all out grudge bike with a light rider and it would get real interesting.
I'm looking forward to working over one of Rickeys 2012 14R's 
Anyway, we had fun this weekend and I thought id share this with you guys.
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Bently
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posted November 28, 2011 05:55 AM
Very cool! on an engine built like that how many 1/4 mile passes would you put on it before a tear down?
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 28, 2011 06:02 AM
Our engines typically go a full season. I know its hard to believe, but our customers with low 8 sec gsxr's, busas, zx10's, zx14's run the full season.
We are starting the end of the season tear downs on all the big stroker zx-10's busas, gsxr's etc. for our customers now and there worn but serviceable. Usually just a fresh diamond hone, rings, polish of the crank, and a check of the valves and seats are all that's required.
The heavy nitrous motors usually wear the rings out fast. They can use rings mid season.
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entropy
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posted November 28, 2011 06:09 AM
Holy Schitt, Jim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT's what i've been waiting for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Bently
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posted November 28, 2011 06:10 AM
Well a whole season is different to different guys, that's why I asked number of passes. A season for me is 250-300 passes and for some it's 30.
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Shane661
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posted November 28, 2011 06:13 AM
Nice Jim! That's a fairly heavy combo; no doubt with a few changes it will go well into the 7's. Sounds like it is making serious power! 
Shane
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Rich
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posted November 28, 2011 06:18 AM
That does sound like a fun day.
It's nice to see other bikes pulling double duty, back and forth from LSR to Drag Racing.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 28, 2011 06:36 AM
quote:
Well a whole season is different to different guys, that's why I asked number of passes. A season for me is 250-300 passes and for some it's 30.
Very true.
Well I can say that Rickeys nitrous real street bike went the whole season this year without a failure of any kind. Once it was dialed in it was making 7.8x sec passes with well over 100 shot of nitrous. I'd say that motor has about 6-8 passes at every event? The rings go away and the power starts to fall off.
We have big motor gsxr customers that run on the street and track and run mid 8's.... all season. 100 + passes isn't un-usual.
Now.... 300 passes? Well I dont think anyone with that kind of money invested will wait until they hurt the motor to take it apart and inspect it.
Its far cheaper to catch an issue before it becomes a catastrophic failure. At these crazy power levels, pushing the envelope you need to be proactive.
A mild 230-240 hp zx14? We have them out there with 2+ seasons.
A 210 HP super sport engine with stock pistons and cams, will run for years just like a stock engine.
A lot of it is the tune and changing the oil, running the proper weight oil etc. Cutting your oil filters open after every weekend of racing... most catastrophic failures can be caught if you are proactive.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 28, 2011 06:41 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 28 Nov 2011 14:42
quote:
Holy Schitt, Jim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT's what i've been waiting for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!
quote:
Nice Jim! That's a fairly heavy combo; no doubt with a few changes it will go well into the 7's. Sounds like it is making serious power!
Shane
Thanks guys. It was really just a fun day not a serious race day. I just wish I had brought the 49 tooth sprocket.  It would have been a different day completely. We really needed to use 5 gears to go thew the quarter mile.
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WRECKSHOP
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posted November 28, 2011 08:52 AM
Jim, is there any type of special coatings that can be applied to the rings so that they will last longer under continued heavy nitrous use ???
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Bently
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posted November 28, 2011 09:08 AM
quote:
quote:
Well a whole season is different to different guys, that's why I asked number of passes. A season for me is 250-300 passes and for some it's 30.
Very true.
Well I can say that Rickeys nitrous real street bike went the whole season this year without a failure of any kind. Once it was dialed in it was making 7.8x sec passes with well over 100 shot of nitrous. I'd say that motor has about 6-8 passes at every event? The rings go away and the power starts to fall off.
We have big motor gsxr customers that run on the street and track and run mid 8's.... all season. 100 + passes isn't un-usual.
Now.... 300 passes? Well I dont think anyone with that kind of money invested will wait until they hurt the motor to take it apart and inspect it.
Its far cheaper to catch an issue before it becomes a catastrophic failure. At these crazy power levels, pushing the envelope you need to be proactive.
A mild 230-240 hp zx14? We have them out there with 2+ seasons.
A 210 HP super sport engine with stock pistons and cams, will run for years just like a stock engine.
A lot of it is the tune and changing the oil, running the proper weight oil etc. Cutting your oil filters open after every weekend of racing... most catastrophic failures can be caught if you are proactive.
Thanks jim, thats why I continue to try and go fast on a stock motor just not worth 1 to 2 tear downs a season for me. I will have to be happy with high 8's!
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 28, 2011 11:12 AM
quote:
Jim, is there any type of special coatings that can be applied to the rings so that they will last longer under continued heavy nitrous use ???
Yes. But they cant reduce face wear, just land wear.
The problem is that the cylinder pressures that push the rings out to seal against the cylinder wall are very high so the ring faces wear out. The higher the cylinder pressures are the faster the wear.
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kaw now
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posted November 28, 2011 11:51 AM
Is that bike HP numbers and runs with no nitrous or turbo? How did you get the revs over 11500 or is that up against the extended limiter?
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frEEk
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posted November 28, 2011 01:01 PM
Y2K, I can't help but think there must be some experimental techniques to reducing ring wear. Concepts come to mind but I suspect they will all work against the primary goal of creating a good seal against the walls. You aware of any ideas that have proven merit?
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madnessracing
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posted November 28, 2011 02:00 PM
I like this! Thanks for the info Jim.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 28, 2011 03:25 PM
quote:
Is that bike HP numbers and runs with no nitrous or turbo? How did you get the revs over 11500 or is that up against the extended limiter?
Its all motor. No nitrous or turbo.
I guess I should have pointed that out. My bad.
The ECU has had the rev limiter raised to 12,200. With the new cams were running we need to extend it up another 300 rpm now so we can shift it at 12000 without hitting the soft rev limit which kicks in 200 rpm below the hard limit.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 28, 2011 03:32 PM
quote:
Y2K, I can't help but think there must be some experimental techniques to reducing ring wear. Concepts come to mind but I suspect they will all work against the primary goal of creating a good seal against the walls. You aware of any ideas that have proven merit?
On our road race engines we use a moly plasma coated ring set. Its $1000 for a set of rings for a 289 small block ford. Of course these engines are $30,000 engines and ever last hp and durability trick is done to them to get the 580 hp from the little motors.
But the rings will still wear out. Gas porting helps the rings seal at high rpm but wears out the rings even faster.
There are ceramics available now but there not exactly legal in most forms of racing.... yet. 
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1adam12
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posted November 28, 2011 04:30 PM
Nice!!!
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KZScott
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posted November 28, 2011 05:14 PM
NICE!!!
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kaw now
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posted November 28, 2011 05:58 PM
Y2K thanks for the reply that looks like a good drag set up as well as lsr.
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frEEk
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posted November 28, 2011 07:17 PM
quote:
On our road race engines we use a moly plasma coated ring set...
Gas porting helps the rings seal at high rpm but wears out the rings even faster.
There are ceramics available now but there not exactly legal in most forms of racing.... yet.
I was thinking more about changes in shape than material, something simple like dimples or grooves on the face, but I suspect those would work more like opposite of gas porting. May reduce wear but cause lost seal via float due to creation of an air cushion. Its enough to make you start looking at completely different engine types...
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 29, 2011 04:08 AM
Well there are several different shape rings and ring faces. This engine is using a chrome barrel top with a low tension thin oil ring. There isn't any oil scraper ring its a 2 ring piston. It uses stock length rods with the 5 mil stroke and a small short custom pin.
Its a very tight and compact custom design for this engine.
With the dry sump we run the crankcase at 10" of vacuum max. Because of the vacuum the rings react differently and will actually wear even faster. Especially on a 2 ring piston. If we ran a second ring, (oil scraper ring) like a Napier hook, the top compression ring would wear less.
I'm actually meeting with the Total Seal guys at the PRI trade show in Orlando later this week to discuss some new rings they offer and how we might be able to use them in bike applications......
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BLK ICE
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posted November 29, 2011 12:17 PM
Jim, how much more does the dry sump system weigh v/s the 2" pan?
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 29, 2011 12:44 PM
quote:
Jim, how much more does the dry sump system weigh v/s the 2" pan?
I dont have an exact number... I didnt weigh the system. But if i had to guess about 15-20 pounds.
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