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JZX

Zone Head
Posts: 943

posted October 14, 2011 11:50 PM

Edited By: JZX on 15 Oct 2011 08:01

Rod knocking

Off the trailer , me in the right lane, made my first pass, sub par sixty foot- not bad, no problem lets go again and try to hit a 1.40-1.41 like last week and that should get me in the 8.70's right? Wrong...

Made my 2 nd pass and the bike shot flames on every shift. Pulled in the clutch after the traps and slowed down only to see my idle barely reading on the tach. Released the clutch and heard a deep knocking echoing thru the cases.

Towed back to the trailer and bumped the start button to confirm the same sound.

I ran mr12 like last week, still with 6% fuel added. A few guys advised me not to run it with my head. A few including one who dyno tuned one with mr12 said it will be fine.

I guess when we pull it apart we will find out.

What should I look for? This sux-maybe a hard lesson learned..
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06 ZX14 65"

Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'

1badzx12r

Needs a life
Posts: 8321

posted October 15, 2011 04:19 AM

Edited By: 1badzx12r on 15 Oct 2011 12:23

IMHO rod knocking don't have much to do with fuel.. I've had only 1 zx14 with rod issue ..the oil was full of gold when drained and when i pulled my rod caps 1 bearing was gold ... it wasn't my bike and the oil was black as the ace of spades..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI

quick6

Expert Class
Posts: 257

posted October 15, 2011 05:49 AM

maybe you spit a shim. if the crank is hurt, like 1bad said you will have flakes in the oil. pull the pan.
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2006 zx14, fully dressed and sliding(Charlie Sheen)

Compton

Zone Head
Posts: 969

posted October 15, 2011 07:04 AM

Turn the motor over by hand and see if it feels like its binding somewhere. Pull the pan check the oil and the pick up for gold. If you dont see gold, pull the stator cover. Ive seen first hand "rod knock" that was only a ignition rotor bolt that backed out. If not pull the valve cover and look around for something wrong up top.
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14

JZX

Zone Head
Posts: 943

posted October 15, 2011 08:14 AM

It's not just a knock, something let go and is slapping against the case and I dont think it happened during the pass since I trapped 152 mph, it happened when I lifted and was slowing down.

Also- the MR12 did not help my mph one bit anywhere, just like last saturday- I can go as quick and fast on pump gas.
____________
06 ZX14 65"

Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'

codyc_13

Expert Class
Posts: 342

posted October 15, 2011 10:43 AM

Edited By: codyc_13 on 15 Oct 2011 18:43

Cam chain related?
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06 zx14, 65", lowered, muzzy pipe, pcIII, air shifter, Litz revalve, Adams cut seat, OSR cut pan 87 pump gas.

8.97 at 149mph

JZX

Zone Head
Posts: 943

posted October 15, 2011 10:48 AM

Drained the oil and looked at it in the light, just tiny glitter that can only be seen in the sunlight. No chucks or flakes of any size. I will pull exhuast and pan later. I bumped the starter for a second and it fired, i killed it quickly. It really sounds like pston slap and its freakin loud.
____________
06 ZX14 65"

Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'

kaw now

Expert Class
Posts: 446

posted October 15, 2011 11:07 AM

Pull spark plugs might have melted pistons.

kingtramp

Expert Class
Posts: 121

posted October 15, 2011 11:56 AM

quote:
Drained the oil and looked at it in the light, just tiny glitter that can only be seen in the sunlight. No chucks or flakes of any size. I will pull exhuast and pan later. I bumped the starter for a second and it fired, i killed it quickly. It really sounds like pston slap and its freakin loud.

I am not familiar with your set up, however a few years back I had a nitrous tube dislogde from spray bar, was injected into engine and sound just like piston slap. So if you had a spraybar for nitrous check for missing tube.

JZX

Zone Head
Posts: 943

posted October 15, 2011 12:18 PM

No nitrous, may have spit a shim, starting with a leakdown.
____________
06 ZX14 65"

Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'

JZX

Zone Head
Posts: 943

posted October 16, 2011 02:40 PM

pulled my header off and found this inside the pipe..
____________
06 ZX14 65"

Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'

BrucerZX14

Expert Class
Posts: 373

posted October 16, 2011 03:04 PM

Whatever that is, looks like its been there for a while. Looks rusty.

JZX

Zone Head
Posts: 943

posted October 16, 2011 03:07 PM

thats the top of a valve with a 3 on it. Its been there since friday night ;-)
____________
06 ZX14 65"

Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'

smokinZX14

Needs a life
Posts: 10197

posted October 16, 2011 03:23 PM

quote:
thats the top of a valve with a 3 on it. Its been there since friday night ;-)

Opps .. Tune up is not going to fix that ..

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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

JZX

Zone Head
Posts: 943

posted October 16, 2011 04:28 PM

im looking for a good used motor-cheap.. Since my timeslip looked good, i know the valve got hit when I lifted the throttle. I wont be doing a super sport head again thats for sure.
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06 ZX14 65"

Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'

kaw now

Expert Class
Posts: 446

posted October 16, 2011 07:05 PM

Just re-read your SS head thread and you shaved .040 off the head that seems like a lot. Looks like too much does anyone know what the limit to safely mill the head? Someone said that factory pistons don't have the valve relief of JE pistons is that right? Use a SS head and JE 13.5 pistons sounds like a better combo maybe no head shaving.

kawasakijockey

Pro
Posts: 1876

posted October 16, 2011 07:18 PM

I was told that some ss heads were shaved .060 and one missed shift would bend a valve. Now that really sounds like a lot to take off one.
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Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost

JZX

Zone Head
Posts: 943

posted October 16, 2011 07:19 PM

Edited By: JZX on 17 Oct 2011 03:20

It's been said by people who run SS zx14's "dont miss a gear". 80 lb springs could help control floating but you will lose hp, I lost some NA hp with Lee's busa springs in my ZX12 but didn't mind becuase I sprayed two stages.

I bet when I rolled off the throttle after the traps it floated before I pulled the clutch in. Strange how you can float at maybe only 9500 rpm's but I guess .040 and 109/109.5 on cams was just too tight? Damn thing screamed on pump gas too and it's hard going back to stock- but I guess a tenth and 3 mph gain could be found somewhere else?

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06 ZX14 65"

Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'

thutch26

Expert Class
thutch26
Posts: 483

posted October 17, 2011 01:40 AM

I have a very streetable built motor off of my bike I'm gonna start parting out this week.. give me a call l8r 2day if ur interested... it will take anything u can throw at it!!! 217-766-4554 Todd
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Gettin faster everytime I go to the track!!!

Y2KZX12R

Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762

posted October 17, 2011 03:47 AM

JZX,

I'm not sure who did your head but the problem isnt because you had your head milled.

It most likely didnt have enough piston to valve clearance. Setting the piston to valve clearance on any engine wether its a SS head or if you have big cams, is VERY important.

The stock springs are fine with stock cams as long as you dont have a nitrous backfire. On our SS heads we shim the springs for a little more insurance.

Also having the air fuel ratio is key to making the power with VP MR-12 fuel. MR-12 will lean the engine out compared to pump fuel. If the a/f ratio isnt right it wont make any more power than any other fuel and can hurt the motor.

MR-12 fuel is fine for 13.5 to 1 cr as long as its tuned to 12.8 a/r ratio. Its 87 motor octane rating, that its equal to 92 R+M/2 pump fuel.

I would guess from the limited info so far that a valve hit the piston and it spit a shim. But thats a guess at this point. I dont have the engine to examine.
Answering a few questions would help diagnose it...

What was the piston to valve clearance on the intake and exhaust?
What was the cam timing?
How thick was the head gasket?
What was the air fuel ratio set to?
What did it make for power on the dyno?
Was it stock cams and springs?
How much was the head milled?
Was it angle milled?
Were you running nitrous?
All the valves were factory valves?

I may be able to figure more out for you with this info.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com