vic
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted June 09, 2011 11:49 AM
Hard to start ZX14
Hi guys, I got a 09 ZX14 with a muzzy M14 and power commanderV with a muzzy advancer set at five degrees advance. For some reason after riding, when I turn my motor off. When I try starting the bike after an hour or so of cooling off, she has a hard time starting. When the bike sites over night, she starts up normal with the choke cycle and runs fine.
Any idea what the problem may be? I hear the fuel pump start when I try starting so I'm lost!
Vic Thx
  
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 09, 2011 12:41 PM
try putting the stock advancer back in.
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vic
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted June 09, 2011 12:53 PM
Hi NINJA12, Ok all put the stock advancer back on and see if that does the trick. I was thinking maybe the power commander V may be the problem but all try your suggestion first.
Vic .
Thank you
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Compton
Zone Head
Posts: 969
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posted June 09, 2011 12:55 PM
battery could be dying
____________
b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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vic
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted June 09, 2011 01:46 PM
You could also be right because the battery does seem a little low after about two five second attempts to start the motor. Anyway I put the stock advancer back on just after coming from a ride, so the motors still hot . The bike started but it was a ten minute job so I'm letting her cool off for a hour or so and see what happens.
I think all get a new battery anyway, it's not a bad idea considering the bikes two years old.
Vic.
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vic
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted June 09, 2011 04:39 PM
Hi guys, so I started the bike up. She started up like nobodys business. Let's see how she starts in the next few days.
I'm changing the battery soon as the dealer gets one in for me anyway.
I never had a issue with ignition advancers and related starting problems. Then again the ZX14 is my first fuel injected bike, all my other bikes had carbs. Now that bikes are out of the stone age, maybe stone age performance enhancers aren't so performance anymore lol!
Vic
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted June 09, 2011 08:21 PM
____________
'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 10, 2011 07:43 AM
The problem could still be battery,
I had that problem on a big motor zx12,
could not get enough battery in the box to hot start 100% of time.
Stock timing and cracked throttle worked until i went to 24v starting, then advanced timing didn't hurt.
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vic
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted June 10, 2011 08:40 AM
Yes, I'm getting a battery, everything u said makes sense.
Between the starter, fuel injectors and ECM . Not to mention the driving lights. the bike needs a good battery to start up.
Vic
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted June 10, 2011 08:46 AM
quote:
The problem could still be battery,
I had that problem on a big motor zx12,
could not get enough battery in the box to hot start 100% of time.
Stock timing and cracked throttle worked until i went to 24v starting, then advanced timing didn't hurt.
What is "24v starting"?
____________
'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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vic
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted June 10, 2011 10:15 AM
24V system? Iv never herd of that on a bike. Wouldn't that fry the electronics?
I heard there thinking of going to a 24V system on cars because of the voltage demand .
Vic
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vic
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted June 10, 2011 12:31 PM
NINJA12, you were right! With the stock advancer the bike starts up like nobodies business . Hot cold and in-between, it starts up on the first crank.
Thanks man!
Vic
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Oz Booster
Expert Class
Posts: 230
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posted June 10, 2011 02:41 PM
24 v is only on the heavy cabled starter motor circuit , not the whole system .
used on big bore hi comp motors, shouldn't need it on a std comp std bore bike,
the advancer was obviously too much at cranking rpm
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted June 10, 2011 04:04 PM
Muzzy advised me to go 4 degrees advance with my M14, flies out and their map and K@N air filter. I have had my 2007 tuned this way or 3 years.Never had a hard start problem. Are you sure you had it set correctly?????
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Slowninja
Expert Class
Slow-ride
Posts: 189
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posted June 10, 2011 04:09 PM
4 degrees and 5 degrees could make the difference.
____________
06 zx14
SWB
9.24 @ 148
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted June 10, 2011 04:23 PM
quote:
4 degrees and 5 degrees could make the difference.
Not sure(don't think so) not just one degree. maybe ping if lugged at low RPM....., if I remember right each mark is 2 degrees. The reason I asked if it was set correctly.
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Audioboyz
Expert Class
Posts: 265
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posted June 10, 2011 04:41 PM
Each mark is 2 degrees never had a problem either.
Craig
____________
2009 Monster ZX-14
Brocks Alienhead,PCV, flys out,LSL Riser kit,-1 front sprocket,43 Vortex rear sprocket,K&N Air Filter, Zero Gravity tall smoked screen,block off plates,175HP 104 torque
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted June 10, 2011 05:00 PM
If who ever installed the advancer thinking each mark was One degree...........ummm I would take a look at my spark plugs. Look down inside the plug(mag lite) and see if any specks on insulator.
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vic
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted June 10, 2011 09:29 PM
I thought each notch was 5 degrees? The Muzzy advancer has the stock setting in the middle then there's two marks counter clockwise for advanced settings and two marks clockwise of stock too retarding the timing. I had my advancer set at the first notch counter clockwise . As confusing as this sounds, turning the advancer clockwise advances the timing but the line is counter clockwise for advanced which is correct.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 11, 2011 02:45 AM
24v starting is using 2 batteries in series going to the starter only. -+-+
remove the cable from starter connect it to the neg (-) of a second battery (usually very small) add a cable from the pos(+) of the second battery to the starter.
Since the starter circuit is only active when button is pushed that the only time you have 24v. and its only going to the starter. You have to charge the little battery manually or buy some trick electronics
that will do it for you.
If the little battery dies you get a no start no matter how good the big battery.
Its nice if you need it, but not something you want on a street bike.
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vic
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted June 11, 2011 07:01 AM
Hi guys , I visited HERRY'S ENGINEERING in milton Ontario a few days ago. northernkawi is a member on this form. His name is Herry and he owns HERRY'S ENGINEERING. All tell you people two things, Herry really has his shit together and if you people ever need parts or performance fabrication work for your ZX14, Herry is the person you want to get a hold of.
Vic
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vic
Novice Class
Posts: 84
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posted June 11, 2011 10:12 AM
So you need some kind of relay setup to turn the second battery off after starting.
Vic
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted June 11, 2011 10:13 AM
quote:
24v starting is using 2 batteries in series going to the starter only. -+-+
remove the cable from starter connect it to the neg (-) of a second battery (usually very small) add a cable from the pos(+) of the second battery to the starter.
Since the starter circuit is only active when button is pushed that the only time you have 24v. and its only going to the starter. You have to charge the little battery manually or buy some trick electronics
that will do it for you.
If the little battery dies you get a no start no matter how good the big battery.
Its nice if you need it, but not something you want on a street bike.
Interesting!
Wow I hope I don't have to resort to 24v starting on my clients 02 ZX12!
His doesn't do it all the time but once in a while there is a hot start issue.
____________
'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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Slowninja
Expert Class
Slow-ride
Posts: 189
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posted June 12, 2011 06:18 PM
No you dont need a relay or anything.
You have the positive wire coming off the ignition coil. It goes to the negative terminal of the second battery. The positive wire comes off and goes to the starter. There is now 24v+ at the starter, it grounds internallly.
As soon as you let go of the button, there is no longer any power on the positive side of the ignition coil. Therefore, there is no charge going on. You DO have to make sure the wire going from the coil to the battery NEVER makes contact with your chassis or engine, otherwise you will energize the starter.
You do have to have some trick shit to charge the second battery off your factory charging system. I looked into it, but it was quite some time ago and i've forgotten.
____________
06 zx14
SWB
9.24 @ 148
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 12, 2011 10:09 PM
quote:
No you dont need a relay or anything.
You have the positive wire coming off the ignition coil. It goes to the negative terminal of the second battery. The positive wire comes off and goes to the starter. There is now 24v+ at the starter, it grounds internallly.
.
Is this something you tried personally?
coil wire appears too small, and what happens to the original relay and starter wire?
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