Big_T112
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted March 08, 2011 02:00 PM
True but the falicon rods in my bike had the bolts cycled 5 times to full torque before installing them. On there web site they call breaking the bolts in. Point is everybody has there own taboo on putting stuff together. When mine goes on the dyno in two weeks under full boost then we will see if it is all good.
  
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted March 08, 2011 02:18 PM
quote:
Point is everybody has there own taboo on putting stuff together. When mine goes on the dyno in two weeks under full boost then we will see if it is all good.
true..
a dyno run and 200 passes later you'll know if you got or had it right ..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted March 08, 2011 02:27 PM
Falicon was the "Magic" word here. I have one of their "Billet" clutch hubs on a old FJ1200 Yamaha I use to Bracket Race. Great products. :-)
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted March 08, 2011 03:22 PM
quote:
I have one of their "Billet" clutch hubs on a old FJ1200 Yamaha I use to Bracket Race. :-)
anybody that races a yamehaha just ain't right ..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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LAB3
Needs a job
Posts: 2977
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posted March 08, 2011 03:57 PM
quote:
quote:
I have one of their "Billet" clutch hubs on a old FJ1200 Yamaha I use to Bracket Race. :-)
anybody that races a yamehaha just ain't right ..
I fell on my head when I was a kid. I had a Hondadada 83 CB1100F before that.
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted March 09, 2011 04:48 AM
Yea, the bearing shells do vary. This is why you need to put the bearings in the rods and torque them to spec and measure the ID of the bearings in the rod. Then with crank numbers you know what you have.
That's a good point on calibrating... We have precision standards we use to calibrate everything with.
Also, you actually want to take 8 measurements per journal. 4 clock positions on each half of the journal. Same with the rods.
The bores are 4 clock positions and 4 layers also.
This is how we discovered the distortion issues with using studs on the integrated blocks. But that's another topic.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Y2KZX12R
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CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted May 24, 2011 03:23 AM
Just finished mapping the cylinders on a studded and torqued 87mm zx14 block. We also mapped then all with the stock head bolts.
Were seeing as much as .0016" of wall distortion in some areas. We will be honing our own blocks with a custom torque plate after nicasil plating from now on I guess.
Were designing the plate now.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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chrisrok
Novice Class
Posts: 63
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posted May 24, 2011 04:07 AM
 Edited By: chrisrok on 24 May 2011 12:12
The info that Competition cnc is providing here is correct. The most accurate way to check clearnce and size is with a dial bore gauge in several positions. In many cases, it is impossible to acheive a clearance of .002 with just different bearings. Kawasaki only offers three sizes for the rod bearings. At that point you must hone the rod to acheive necessary clearance in the positive direction, or cut the caps, then hone to tighten things up. And with regards to oem bolt/nuts on the rods, it is critical to replace those after they have been in service. Those things are torque to yeild, or in basic terminology, made to stretch to acheive the proper torque. After that has been done once it is time to put them in the trash can. I have even used every after market rod on the market, and I still follow those same guidelines with them. Most aftermarket rods have much stronger/better rod bolts (arp) that generally torque a little higher than oem. Many builders simply put the smallest bearing (black) in and let them ride. However, I have had to have new rods honed also to acheive proper clearance. These guidelines along with some mild oiling system mods have yeilded some good results with regards to reliabily over the years, and yes were pushing those motors pretty hard with turbos or nos. My word is not the gospel, just something to hopefully shed some light on the subject and provide help. Sincerely, Chris Jones.
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted May 24, 2011 02:38 PM
The most i have ever achieved without sizing / honing the rods for .002 on the kaws is .0018 -19 and that's not the norm.
Just using the black brgs wont cut it and i don't even try i just have the machine shop set them up with the cases, rods, and crank all sent to the same shop. Everything is plated,torqued and align honed and clearance's set to what i ask .
Even before Jim's gear with case mods the 14's bearing problem is all but eliminated !
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bill eason
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Y2KZX12R
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CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted May 24, 2011 02:55 PM
You do have to be carefull honing the rods for bearing clearances. It reduces the crush on the bearing. A few tenths is ok and we do it all the time but just be aware of the reduction of crush.
We do a lot of motors where we dont assemble the engine. We do all the measuring, machining and math etc and make it so the customer can put the engine together. It saves a little money for the customer but most of the time building an engine is actually the measuring and machining proccess before any parts are actually assembled. so it doesnt save the customer a ton of money,
Loosten up those rod small ends also!!
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted May 25, 2011 07:13 AM
Jim what's your charge for honing carillo rods? Bought a used set I need to have checked.
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted May 25, 2011 10:43 AM
$80 to hone both ends. we need your pins to hone the small end. if the rods need resizing then its $120
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 25, 2011 10:54 AM
quote:
Even before Jim's gear with case mods the 14's bearing problem is all but eliminated !
Case mods?
Is this something regular builders can do or does it require cases to be sent out?
if so, cost?
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Big_T112
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted May 25, 2011 12:11 PM
Well here in Alabama at the Toyota Engine plant they don't check anything. I saw the poor guy manually lifting and setting crankshafts in the blocks. He said he does 300 a shift. All electronic torque tools. I assume the measurement must be done with electronics to tell them what bearings to use. Put in and go. When they get to the engine test stand and kick a rod out or start knocking the engine is scrapped and they add another one to the shift. Now where I work the AMG engines are hand assembled and signed by the builder. Someone has to die before you could get one of those great jobs, that and the ones that random test drive cars for quality checks all shift. Get paid to flog someones new car.
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