Ozonkiller
Expert Class
Posts: 350
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posted October 29, 2010 05:10 PM
Removing balancers question
Does removing the counter balancers make the bike easier or harder to launch at the dragstrip?
Does anybody have any dyno comparisons, before and after?
What are your personal experiences?
Thanks,
Tom
  
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LeonidasZX14
Pro
Posts: 1277
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posted October 29, 2010 05:29 PM
I have heard that removing them is bad on bearings. I was talking to a dude with a FAST bike and he leaves them in.
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09' ZX14
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quick6
Expert Class
Posts: 257
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posted October 30, 2010 05:21 AM
how could removing them be bad on the bearings? everything i have read says it should be better on the bearings because it increases oil pressure to the bearings, since the counter balancers are fed off the same oil passage that feeds the bearings.just asking because this is the first btime ive heard someone say its bad for them.
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2006 zx14, fully dressed and sliding(Charlie Sheen)
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eklipse636
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ZX-14
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posted October 30, 2010 07:22 AM
The counterbalancer is there to help make things balanced, right? If you take it out wouldn't it beat on the bearings with it being unbalanced? If not, what does the counterbalanced do?
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Big_T112
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posted October 30, 2010 08:21 AM
They are there to smooth out vibration at lower engine speeds to make the bike smoother the to general public. I really could not tell any difference after 3K RPM. Take them out and #3 rod lasts a long time. The turbo 14 made 390 RWHP and never had a minutes trouble or any rod bearing failures.
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madnessracing
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Vmax and Busa Beater
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posted October 30, 2010 11:49 AM
thats some good info right there Big_T
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quick6
Expert Class
Posts: 257
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posted October 30, 2010 03:36 PM
quote:
The counterbalancer is there to help make things balanced, right? If you take it out wouldn't it beat on the bearings with it being unbalanced? If not, what does the counterbalanced do?
no they dont really balance anything. all inline 4 crankshafts are inherently balanced. as stated they kinda just absorb vibration at lower revs . there are two counterbalancers in the 14. one is fed off the same oil passage #3 rod uses and the other feeds off #1 if im not mistaken.use the dummy shafts and you have more oil pressure going to the bearings
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2006 zx14, fully dressed and sliding(Charlie Sheen)
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01smokes
Needs a job
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posted October 30, 2010 03:58 PM
quote:
They are there to smooth out vibration at lower engine speeds to make the bike smoother the to general public. I really could not tell any difference after 3K RPM. Take them out and #3 rod lasts a long time. The turbo 14 made 390 RWHP and never had a minutes trouble or any rod bearing failures.
How hard are they to put in?
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eklipse636
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ZX-14
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posted October 30, 2010 04:04 PM
quote:
quote:
The counterbalancer is there to help make things balanced, right? If you take it out wouldn't it beat on the bearings with it being unbalanced? If not, what does the counterbalanced do?
no they dont really balance anything. all inline 4 crankshafts are inherently balanced. as stated they kinda just absorb vibration at lower revs . there are two counterbalancers in the 14. one is fed off the same oil passage #3 rod uses and the other feeds off #1 if im not mistaken.use the dummy shafts and you have more oil pressure going to the bearings
thanks! I assumed that they were there for a good reason. I've never took apart a engine to tell.
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LeonidasZX14
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posted October 30, 2010 04:10 PM
quote:
The counterbalancer is there to help make things balanced, right? If you take it out wouldn't it beat on the bearings with it being unbalanced? If not, what does the counterbalanced do?
You are correct Dusty. That is exactly what the VERY well know pro street builder said. He said that it beat the shit out of the bearings.
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09' ZX14
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LeonidasZX14
Pro
Posts: 1277
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posted October 30, 2010 04:15 PM
quote:
They are there to smooth out vibration at lower engine speeds to make the bike smoother the to general public. I really could not tell any difference after 3K RPM. Take them out and #3 rod lasts a long time. The turbo 14 made 390 RWHP and never had a minutes trouble or any rod bearing failures.
I am know engine build expert but I always listen to people with more knowledge than me. If the engine is not balanced would'nt it make sense that the rod bearings would take more abuse than a bike that had them in place. Now wheter it be detremental to the motor who know. The same guy also said that he runs a thinner bearing on #3 and his motor has stayed together for over 3 years.
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09' ZX14
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1badzx12r
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posted October 30, 2010 04:44 PM
 Edited By: 1badzx12r on 31 Oct 2010 00:46
quote:
quote:
The same guy also said that he runs a thinner bearing on #3 and his motor has stayed together for over 3 years.
is this guy one those that make 2 races a year. or 20 passes a night 4 times a month
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thutch26
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thutch26
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posted October 30, 2010 05:31 PM
if you take them out u ought to send the crank out and have it balanced.... I have lightened and balanced both my cranks and have taken the balancers out of both engines.... Well worth t if you ever pull the cases apart...
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 31, 2010 04:20 AM
In-line 4 cylinder engines are neutral balanced. The "balancers" don't balance the crank and have no effect on the balance of the crankshaft.
What they actually do is absorb the fluctuations in the crankshaft acceleration when each cylinder fires which is felt as vibration to the rider.
You may notice some buzzyness in the handle bars.
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Y2KZX12R
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eklipse636
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ZX-14
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posted October 31, 2010 04:32 AM
quote:
In-line 4 cylinder engines are neutral balanced. The "balancers" don't balance the crank and have no effect on the balance of the crankshaft.
What they actually do is absorb the fluctuations in the crankshaft acceleration when each cylinder fires which is felt as vibration to the rider.
You may notice some buzzyness in the handle bars.
which would be bad on the bearings, right? Any added vibration can't be good for the bearings.
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8.89 mph 151.32
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LeonidasZX14
Pro
Posts: 1277
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posted October 31, 2010 05:37 AM
quote:
In-line 4 cylinder engines are neutral balanced. The "balancers" don't balance the crank and have no effect on the balance of the crankshaft.
What they actually do is absorb the fluctuations in the crankshaft acceleration when each cylinder fires which is felt as vibration to the rider.
You may notice some buzzyness in the handle bars.
So let me ask Jim. Are you running them on yours?
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09' ZX14
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Big_T112
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted October 31, 2010 06:57 AM
It will NOT beat the bearings out. The balancers are there to make the bike smoother at lower engine speeds. It will give you more oil pressure. If you leave them in it will be fine also. We have been pulling the one from Busa's since 1999. My 06 14 had them and I took them out of the 07 and 08 model. I rode the 07 back and forth to work all summer and never could really tell any difference. about 6K miles I put on that bike without them. Either way it will always be debated. You will do more damage to rod bearings if you ride off on your bike without letting it warm up some or hit the rev limiter alot, Airshift or nitrous backfires. basically anytime you make the bearing surface touch the crankshaft it's chipping away at them.
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quick6
Expert Class
Posts: 257
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posted October 31, 2010 10:08 AM
quote:
quote:
In-line 4 cylinder engines are neutral balanced. The "balancers" don't balance the crank and have no effect on the balance of the crankshaft.
What they actually do is absorb the fluctuations in the crankshaft acceleration when each cylinder fires which is felt as vibration to the rider.
You may notice some buzzyness in the handle bars.
which would be bad on the bearings, right? Any added vibration can't be good for the bearings.
the bearings feel the vibrations whether the balancers are there or not, since the bearings are actually on the crank and the balancers are not. so the vibrations are really a moot point. fact is with them out, you get more oil and pressure to the bearings, is that a bad thing?
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Big_T112
Pro
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posted October 31, 2010 11:03 AM
Edited By: Big_T112 on 31 Oct 2010 19:04
Joe public wants the most H.P. out of his big bore bike. but he also wants it to be smooth. Maybe balancers is not the correct term. I would say they are dampners more than balancers. Here is a typical GSXR1000 cranks shaft. You can clearly see in the picture that the crank is balanced from the factory. It has a bolt on steel weight that has been drilled in several places to balance the rotating assy. But the 1000 still uses one balancer to help smooth out lower RPM vibration making Sport Rider Magazine say it's "one of the smoothest" 1000's we have ever ridden. You get the picture. On my track bike I take out the balancer and remove the weight off of the crank shaft. And it still hits the rev limiter at 16.5K. I vote for more oil pressure, lifting a ZX14 engine up on the workbench will strain your sack when you have to put a #3 rod in it!
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dubious
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posted October 31, 2010 11:05 AM
Edited By: dubious on 31 Oct 2010 19:29
Remove balancers and increase oil flow and pressure to the main and rod bearings.
Have your crank and piston assembly balanced within 1 gram across all 4 cylinders. and always check the runout on your crankshaft when rebuilding.
And BigT is right, they even have rubber bumpers, they are dampers, not balancers.
My stock zx14 rotating asssembly was already within 3 grams across all 4 cylinders...
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 31, 2010 12:52 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 31 Oct 2010 20:57
quote:
quote:
In-line 4 cylinder engines are neutral balanced. The "balancers" don't balance the crank and have no effect on the balance of the crankshaft.
What they actually do is absorb the fluctuations in the crankshaft acceleration when each cylinder fires which is felt as vibration to the rider.
You may notice some buzzyness in the handle bars.
which would be bad on the bearings, right? Any added vibration can't be good for the bearings.
Its not a vibration per say in the crank rods etc. Its perceived as a vibration to the rider.
They are there as a creature comfort.
I've never seen any evidence that they help bearing life or help any other aspect of the engines reliability.
The one thing they will do is reduce the acceleration rate of the crankshaft. The engine will rev slower. But they do store kennetic energy that can be given back to the crank when launching of the line drag racing. But then you have to rev them back up again as your rpms climb again.
Yea the factorys do a great job of balancing these engines.
I agree you stroker guys espically need to check the balance when you get them back.
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SteddyTeddy
Pro
Posts: 1664
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posted October 31, 2010 01:08 PM
Removed the ballancer on my stock bore ZRX motor a couple years ago and hated it. Way more vibs in the bars. I left it in with my stroker motor.
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted November 01, 2010 10:02 AM
Good stuff! 
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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