gilberjj
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posted October 13, 2010 08:24 PM
Where to get gtr1400/connie/c14 pistons?
I'd like to explore the possibility of putting gtr1400 pistons in my zx14 turbo motor. What does it involve, and what's the compression (10.75:1 right???)? Where can I buy them, and how much do they cost?
Also, what's the thickest head gasket made for the zx14? I've found a .030" by cometic which is a little thicker, anyone know of anything that's even thicker????
  
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johnbull
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posted October 14, 2010 02:04 AM
If I'm not mistaken .030" is stock thickness direct replacement.
MTC make a .043 head gasket for the ZX14. Part number GAS-HG84ZX14.
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gilberjj
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posted October 14, 2010 02:00 PM
1bad??? Any help?
Are these completely 100% drop in? Which rings do I use?
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1badzx12r
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posted October 14, 2010 03:06 PM
quote:
1bad??? Any help?
Are these completely 100% drop in? Which rings do I use?
yes complete 100% stock drop-ins 10.5 to 1 compression . either or rings will work but i used stock zx14 rings . but do check your ring gaps with your cylinder bore to make sure it spec's out per cylinder
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1badzx12r
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posted October 14, 2010 03:21 PM
 Edited By: 1badzx12r on 14 Oct 2010 23:22
i would give these guys a shout since they are parting a connie motor out http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/08-10-Kawasaki-Concours-1400-ZG14-Motor-Enigine-Case-/140403497987?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20b0b35c03
i'm sure they got the pistons laying around there somewhere
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gilberjj
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posted October 15, 2010 07:41 AM
Yikes........ he wants $425 for rods and pistons!!!!!! Screw that! I'm asking him how much he wants for the pistons/rings
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rtbain
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posted October 15, 2010 09:49 AM
Call CP
Or JE
Even better post in the DragBike Zone on the site. LOTS of turbo experience there.
Do not go cheap, it will be very expensive long term,
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Randy
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1badzx12r
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posted October 15, 2010 10:07 AM
quote:
Yikes........ he wants $425 for rods and pistons!!!!!! Screw that! I'm asking him how much he wants for the pistons/rings
yeap thats a little steep.. i purchased a whole running motor with 25 miles on it for 699.00
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01smokes
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posted October 15, 2010 11:27 AM
Why do you wanna lower compression but still wanna run low boost and e85 you are just gonna have to run meeting boost to make the same power
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01smokes
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posted October 15, 2010 11:31 AM
Why do you wanna lower compression but still wanna run low boost and e85 you are just gonna have to run meeting boost to make the same power
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gilberjj
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posted October 15, 2010 11:37 AM
quote:
Why do you wanna lower compression but still wanna run low boost and e85 you are just gonna have to run meeting boost to make the same power
who said I want to run low boost???? 
Lower compression should lower combustion temps a little, plus I like the fact that the connie pistons have another .1" of deck height should my tune be off by a little. I'm not for sure going this route, but I'm considering putting on a 20g (flows 650ish cfm) instead of the big 16g that I bought (that flows 550ish cfm). I've been talking with Chris Jones and he said the bikes that are living have bigger turbos on them to keep inlet temps down.
Remember.... I like to explore possibilities. My build won't take as long as Lyle's (goodness sakes), but I plan on doing a lot of research. That way I'll have what I believe to be the best setup for my purposes.
Also..... how much does e85 cool the incoming air compared to pump or race gas?
1bad, I was thinking about offering $80 for the pistons and rings. For used pistons, they shouldn't expect to get more.....
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gilberjj
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posted October 15, 2010 11:40 AM
Edited By: gilberjj on 15 Oct 2010 19:42
This is what Chris Jones posted on psychobike.com
I asked him where he gets his thicker head gaskets, and he said he has cometic custom make them with .051" thickness.
[QUOTE]475 hp is a lot to ask for from a stock zx14 motor. Im not saying it can't be done on a dyno; however I would like to see you put it into motion in the real world load situation such as a track. I know of one bike in Texas that has a stock motor with the exception of a thicker head gaskest and heavy duty valve springs. That bike also has a very efficient turbo systems and fuel system and tuned for vp c-16 fuel only. Not some fmu with stock injectors. That bike is only 62 inch and has gone some 8 teens@179 mph with 17 pounds of boost. My point is you will never pull those number off without a highly efficent turbo system or tune-up. My personal zx14 turbos have gone well into the sevens@190 plus mph at only 19-21 on built turbo motors. If you have the funds to put in forged low comp. pistons and heavy duty springs it would be wise. The stock valve spring pressues are pretty much too soft for any serious boost, or even a small shot of nitrous more that 50 hp. The stock zx14 pistons have minumum surface area above the ringslands that will without a doubt collapse if the tune is off just a little. I don't consider myself the authority on a zx14 motor, but I have built more than a few that have stayed together under some serious pressure. And in conclusion it does not take anywhere near 475 hp to go into the sevens or run 190 plus in the quarter mile. Dyno numbers are cool ( i have one to), but they are never the final say. I have seen a many turbo bikes that lay down some serious peak numbers on the dyno but would not get down a track or produced a powerband similar to a 70's two stroke dirt bike. The dyno is a tuning tool. The behavior of a turbo bike at high boost levels on a dyno v/s going down a track are too different animals completely. Just my two cents, simply stated as what I consider to be factual from my experiences; not to start an argument. Sincerely Chris Jones  :[/QUOTE]
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1badzx12r
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posted October 15, 2010 11:48 AM
quote:
1bad, I was thinking about offering $80 for the pistons and rings. For used pistons, they shouldn't expect to get more.....
80.00 to 120.00 has been the going rate for used pistons .. i would try the connie forums also . who knows maybe the connie guys are looking for zx14 pistons
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1badzx12r
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posted October 15, 2010 11:56 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 15 Oct 2010 20:03
quote:
That bike is only 62 inch and has gone some 8 teens@179 mph with 17 pounds of boost.
not calling the man a liar but
i 've never seen no zx14 run those number's in south central Texas ..
what about up north wee
i am a fan of high volume low boost .. but geez 17lbs of boost got to be heating air ..
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gilberjj
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posted October 15, 2010 12:48 PM
Jones generally runs gt30s and gt35s on his turbo kits. If u didn't know, those are big turbos and very efficient. It seems to be his philosophy to run large turbos to keep heat down
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06redzx14
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posted October 15, 2010 01:35 PM
It ran those numbers when he was in Baytown for the sept har race
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1badzx12r
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posted October 15, 2010 01:49 PM
quote:
Jones generally runs gt30s and gt35s on his turbo kits. If u didn't know, those are big turbos and very efficient. It seems to be his philosophy to run large turbos to keep heat down
but unless I'm mistaken and mis-understood from the turbo guys .. it don't matter how big the turbo is it the air getting compressed that heats up . and lbs is lbs .. I'm sure theres a cut off limit of were boosted air goes from cool to hot with any turbo . like on the little turbos 10 lbs is an average starting point .. .does the bigger turbo's go to 12 or 14 lbs since they moving more volume .. or do they heat up sooner .. i really don't know but common sense says more volume less heating . but then again your compressing more air sooner
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1badzx12r
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posted October 15, 2010 01:52 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 15 Oct 2010 21:53
quote:
. I know of one bike in Texas that has a stock motor with the exception of a thicker head gaskest and heavy duty valve springs
quote:
It ran those numbers when he was in Baytown for the sept har race
like 1 pass in texas . or is it a texas bike running regularly in texas . i didn't go to the baytown HAR
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06redzx14
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posted October 15, 2010 01:59 PM
Chris jones had his real street bike there made passes Friday- Sunday in the 7.90 - 8.0 range
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1badzx12r
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posted October 15, 2010 02:07 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 15 Oct 2010 22:18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ZhABeWAPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzbUVgTYjRg&feature=related
so the bike is from texas about as much as gadson is.. more like it came to texas and raced here .
now this is a texas bike http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDWuQXkDWig
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gilberjj
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posted October 15, 2010 03:10 PM
quote:
but unless I'm mistaken and mis-understood from the turbo guys .. it don't matter how big the turbo is it the air getting compressed that heats up . and lbs is lbs .. I'm sure theres a cut off limit of were boosted air goes from cool to hot with any turbo . like on the little turbos 10 lbs is an average starting point .. .does the bigger turbo's go to 12 or 14 lbs since they moving more volume .. or do they heat up sooner .. i really don't know but common sense says more volume less heating . but then again your compressing more air sooner
As I understand, it has everything to do with how big/efficient the turbo is. Remember, it's not psi that makes power, it's FLOW. A bigger more efficient turbo makes more power at 5 psi then a small turbo does at 5 psi. Reason being it's more efficient. The air can more easily escape the engine, the turbine isn't as much of a restriction, and the compressor inlet isn't a restriction. The air can more easily flow into the engine, therefore there isn't as much heat created. The downside is since it's more efficient, it takes longer for it to spool up because the wheels are larger, as well as the areas inside the compressor and turbine housings.
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1badzx12r
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posted October 15, 2010 03:34 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 15 Oct 2010 23:35
inner cooler on big turbo's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn7iTcjUmTo&feature=related
compressing air gets hot
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Shane661
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posted October 15, 2010 03:38 PM
I would definitely split the cases in order to put in some shitty oem pistons for your turbo. 
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01smokes
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posted October 15, 2010 03:45 PM
quote:
quote:
Why do you wanna lower compression but still wanna run low boost and e85 you are just gonna have to run meeting boost to make the same power
who said I want to run low boost????
Lower compression should lower combustion temps a little, plus I like the fact that the connie pistons have another .1" of deck height should my tune be off by a little. I'm not for sure going this route, but I'm considering putting on a 20g (flows 650ish cfm) instead of the big 16g that I bought (that flows 550ish cfm). I've been talking with Chris Jones and he said the bikes that are living have bigger turbos on them to keep inlet temps down.
Remember.... I like to explore possibilities. My build won't take as long as Lyle's (goodness sakes), but I plan on doing a lot of research. That way I'll have what I believe to be the best setup for my purposes.
Also..... how much does e85 cool the incoming air compared to pump or race gas?
1bad, I was thinking about offering $80 for the pistons and rings. For used pistons, they shouldn't expect to get more.....
you said you want to run 300hp that is damn near low boost lol. but the e85 will cool it better than c16 by far people are comparing e85 to vp import now. even tho e85 only has a octane rating of 105 it cools everything down so much and shit does not detonate heads will lift off cars from the timing and boost that people run before they detonate
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1badzx12r
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posted October 15, 2010 04:29 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 16 Oct 2010 00:30
quote:
I would definitely split the cases in order to put in some shitty oem pistons for your turbo.
amazing the busa guys do . aftermarkret rods with stock pistons
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