Beondwacko
Expert Class
Posts: 393
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posted September 24, 2010 08:29 AM
I tried the advise given with 87 octane
Hi Guys,
I made it out to the track again this past Wednesday night and with the advise of member on the board here, I ran with regular 87 octane pump fuel.
Let me start off saying that the conditions were OK at best. High humidity and temps in the low-mid 80's.
I didn't go any faster! Well, at least my mph in the 1/4 & 1/8 weren't anything to brag about. I did manage to cut a 9.76 @145 in the 1/4. Then after 5 passes, the track officials closed the track down to the 1/8. Then the fun began!!!
I cut my quickest 60' and 1/8 mile times. 1.64 for the 60' and 6.35 @ 117 in the 1/8.
On one pass, the front came up about 150 feet past the tree in the top of 1st gear and I said fuck it, lets have a little fun here. So I did a clutchless shift on 1 wheel and powered the bike past the 1/8 mile in second gear on 1 wheel. The guy running the tree asked me if I was star gazing????LOL.
I did a couple of more passes on 1 wheel after I flubbed the 60' again past the 1/8. Overall though, I'd say that I didn't make any gains on 87 vs. 93 octane.
____________
08' Atomic Silver, PCIII, Brocks pipe,BMC, -1, strapped front end
  
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 24, 2010 08:33 AM
Which map did you use?
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted September 24, 2010 08:40 AM
quote:
Which map did you use?
I can switch map after map after map and see no change in mph
wee
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 24, 2010 08:46 AM
quote:
quote:
Which map did you use?
I can switch map after map after map and see no change in mph
wee
Well, I guess it doesn't work for you then. 
But the science is solid. Have you logged your a/f under load at the track?
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted September 24, 2010 08:50 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Which map did you use?
I can switch map after map after map and see no change in mph
wee
Well, I guess it doesn't work for you then.
But the science is solid. Have you logged your a/f under load at the track?
no, I need to get a wego. I guess I could change the a/f until I see a change in mph.
wee
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 24, 2010 08:52 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 24 Sep 2010 16:53
I think that a lot of guys do it that way. Just adjust it a little at a time until you see a change on the big end. If it slows down, you added too much...
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Beondwacko
Expert Class
Posts: 393
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posted September 24, 2010 12:36 PM
Edited By: Beondwacko on 24 Sep 2010 20:46
quote:
Which map did you use?
It was a Brocks map that was slightly "tweaked" by Dan(OldKawBoy), the previous owner. I have no idea how "tweaked" it was,,,,,, that's a secret as I was told.
There was 1 slight difference I noticed running 87 vs 93 though, just off idle, if I were to "snap" the throttle quickly no load, I could of sworn I heard a ping for the first fraction of a second as the engine reacted to the throttle change. It might be me of course, but I swear I heard it.
As for any discernible difference when running or racing,,,,,,, I couldn't tell of any.
BTW, I was running 1/2 a tank of fuel or maybe just slightly less when I was at the track. That was with having a full tank of 87 run through it the tank before.
____________
08' Atomic Silver, PCIII, Brocks pipe,BMC, -1, strapped front end
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 24, 2010 12:49 PM
I changed for 87 to 89 , so far i have seen no changes in ET or MPH .. Someone a while back tested 87 ,89 , 93 and only found 1 HP between all of them .. That 1 hp could be the dyno, tire pressure or who knows what..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted September 24, 2010 12:51 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 24 Sep 2010 21:00
quote:
quote:
Which map did you use?
It was a Brocks map that was slightly "tweaked" by Dan(OldKawBoy), the previous owner. I have no idea how "tweaked" it was,,,,,, that's a secret as I was told.
There was 1 slight difference I noticed running 87 vs 93 though, just off idle, if I were to "snap" the throttle quickly no load, I could of sworn I heard a ping for the first fraction of a second as the engine reacted to the throttle change. It might be me of course, but I swear I heard it.
As for any discernible difference when running or racing,,,,,,, I couldn't tell of any.
BTW, I was running 1/2 a tank of fuel or maybe just slightly less when I was at the track. That was with having a full tank of 87 run through it the tank before.
As I say, the science is sound. Just as you could expect to see a power loss with 116 octane fuel, you could expect to gain a little power with 87 vs. 93.
However, if under your loading conditions, and setup, 87 octane was too little knock resistance...well, you are not going to gain anything. There really are no absolutes.
I don't know much about pump fuels. At one point I was told that 89 was a blended fuel, and that the quality could vary? Again, I have no way to confirm that...I've never driven a fuel tanker. But 87 and 89 are pretty close #'s, in any case.
To really know what is going on, you would beed a data logger. Dan's map may have been tuned for a different quality of fuel than you are using. As an example of how different fuels can change things...on Racheal's turbo we switched from Sunoco 108 to Vp C-16, which is a 116 octane fuel. The a/f went from 11.2:1 to 10.6:1. That is an extreme example, of course.
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted September 24, 2010 01:03 PM
HA HA .ya'll funny
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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BrooklynNYZX12
Zone Head
Posts: 520
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posted September 24, 2010 04:33 PM
I think in a stock application bike, any tuner will tell you the least amount of octane before detonation will yield the most HP/TQ. VP MR9/12 are not high octane fuels,you should really do more testing between the 87 reg and 93 hi test to make a concrete decision. I always believe being on the safe side is good in regards to octane but most gas stations have tanks for regular and tanks for high test. The mid grade I thought was mixed on site.What they do with the fuel is anyones guess..Engines today are much more fuel tolerant than years ago..meaning they are much more resistant to pinging/detonating.
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Orient Express Top Street Bike Winner 8-4-07
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Beondwacko
Expert Class
Posts: 393
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posted September 24, 2010 05:39 PM
quote:
I think in a stock application bike, any tuner will tell you the least amount of octane before detonation will yield the most HP/TQ. VP MR9/12 are not high octane fuels,you should really do more testing between the 87 reg and 93 hi test to make a concrete decision. I always believe being on the safe side is good in regards to octane but most gas stations have tanks for regular and tanks for high test. The mid grade I thought was mixed on site.What they do with the fuel is anyones guess..Engines today are much more fuel tolerant than years ago..meaning they are much more resistant to pinging/detonating.
Ahhh the fond memories of Fountain Ave & S. Conduit Ave. I did a lot of racing over there back in the early 90's. Cars, not bikes.
I have found a spot by me that sells straight gasoline without ethanol that I'd like to give a shot. When I was living up in NY, I remembered the performance differences between oxygenated fuel VS non oxygenated and it was quite noticeable.
It's hard to tell the performance differences on the bike with just fuel at the track. A dyno would be most accurate I know but I have no established relationships with any local shops and as was mentioned before, my bike is not far from stock overall. My launches are fairly consistent so I've been using my MPH as a measuring point in both the 1/8 and 1/4 mile to kinda show how strong the bike is running.
As far as I know about the pump fuels, they do blend 87 & 93 to come up with 89 octane.
____________
08' Atomic Silver, PCIII, Brocks pipe,BMC, -1, strapped front end
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BrooklynNYZX12
Zone Head
Posts: 520
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posted September 24, 2010 07:59 PM
Ahhh the fond memories of Fountain Ave & S. Conduit Ave. I did a lot of racing over there back in the early 90's. Cars, not bikes
Who are some cars or characters you can remember from back in the day?
In regard to oxygenated fuels,VP MR9/MR12 are oxygenated race fuels..they make some good #'s.
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Orient Express Top Street Bike Winner 8-4-07
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Beondwacko
Expert Class
Posts: 393
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posted September 25, 2010 05:33 AM
Brooklyn,
I was out there back from 89'-93'. I used to run a small block Monza (mild 13 sec street car) and then a Malibu wagon (again 13 sec street car). My father had an RX-7 (low 12 sec street car) that was stolen out of his garage in Huntington,,,,,,, and that ended up there on S.Conduit.
The people I remember were all from out on the Island. A few big block Chevelle's, a couple of mustangs, and other odds and ends.
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08' Atomic Silver, PCIII, Brocks pipe,BMC, -1, strapped front end
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LeonidasZX14
Pro
Posts: 1277
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posted September 25, 2010 05:59 AM
I have run my fastest pass on 87 octane and refuse to try anything else in an all motor application.
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09' ZX14
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BrooklynNYZX12
Zone Head
Posts: 520
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posted September 25, 2010 08:31 AM
Wacko,I was hoping you knew some names...Bike Racer Tommy Micelli street raced there so did "Cycle" Dave Hance of Shakedown@ E-Town fame,Scotty Guadagno from PeeGee,Mike Castellana,Joe Franco..lotsa guys raced there was checkin if you knew any guys there...there were some wild fast cars there back in the day...10 second Electra 225's,440 Cordobas, Roys fast 10 second Riviera..would have to see them to believe them.
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Orient Express Top Street Bike Winner 8-4-07
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Compton
Zone Head
Posts: 969
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posted September 25, 2010 05:58 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Which map did you use?
To really know what is going on, you would beed a data logger. Dan's map may have been tuned for a different quality of fuel than you are using. As an example of how different fuels can change things...on Racheal's turbo we switched from Sunoco 108 to Vp C-16, which is a 116 octane fuel. The a/f went from 11.2:1 to 10.6:1. That is an extreme example, of course.
c116 is 117 octane
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted September 25, 2010 07:35 PM
on smokin's dyno my bike with 93 octane made the same power as the bikes with 87, just a reference point
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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