Nick2k
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted May 02, 2010 02:29 PM
Put it on the dyno today...
Here is the dyno result for my 2008, bone-stock zx-14 with only 1,700 miles:
  
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rtbain
Expert Class
old, fat and slow
Posts: 244
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posted May 02, 2010 02:52 PM
 Edited By: rtbain on 2 May 2010 22:53
Way cool! Now you have a no BS starting point for modifications. Try and stick with the same dyno and operator for better consistency.
Remember, its not the actual numbers, its the percentage increase that matters.
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Randy
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Nick2k
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted May 02, 2010 03:04 PM
Three other ZX-14's came out to the free dyno day, each of which had mods. Mine made a great "baseline" for them, and in turn they made great examples of what different mods would do for my bike. Win-win for everyone!
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rtbain
Expert Class
old, fat and slow
Posts: 244
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posted May 03, 2010 01:30 AM
Be careful comparing bikes. Once you begin modifying the engine there are a lot of variables. Even a pipe swap can yield different numbers depending on how the engine fuel and timing maps are set up..
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Randy
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted May 03, 2010 03:32 AM
dang the bmw 1000rr has 40hp more and 150lbs lighter than your bike
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rtbain
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Posts: 244
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posted May 03, 2010 04:01 AM
Edited By: rtbain on 3 May 2010 12:05
See what I mean? When it comes to numbers people don't necessarily compare apples to apples. Comparing factory claims with rear wheel dyno results is not valid. BMW claims 190.42 horsepower. They don't state where but it is common for manufactures to use HP ratings at the crankshaft.
Wet weights are BMW - 455.3 and ZX14 566.7 with a net difference of 111.4lbs not 150. But these are published numbers, not actually putting the bikes on the same scale so you can never be sure what the differences really are. Kinda like asking someone their weight. You might get an accurate answer, you might not.
For that matter different dynos of the same manufacture will give different results. Even the same dyno with different operators can produce different numbers.
The trick is to find an operator who can give consistent results and work with those figures.
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Randy
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted May 03, 2010 04:42 AM
I would like to see the a/f numbers
wee
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Nick2k
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted May 03, 2010 10:37 AM
Edited By: Nick2k on 3 May 2010 18:38
quote:
dang the bmw 1000rr has 40hp more and 150lbs lighter than your bike
Are you sure about that? Here is a dyno result for a 1000rr that went on the same dyno as me, about 30 minutes after me:
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted May 03, 2010 11:34 AM
biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig number s1000rr! Still waiting to see how they run. What's Brock doing?
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TampaGunSlinger
Novice Class
Posts: 95
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posted May 03, 2010 01:07 PM
haha at people sucking BMW dick for nothing - compare the s1000rr to the zx10 or something like that not my 14 cause i bought my 14 to fast and be comfortable to ride it for more then 40mins straight. i didn't want a track bike i wanted a bike i could use everyday to ride anywhere
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Nick2k
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted May 03, 2010 08:30 PM
It certainly seems like the s1000rr owners are trying to win some sort of non-existent "my wanker is bigger that yours" contest.
Two distinctly different bikes. Two different purposes.
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dcjens
Pro
Wet side of Washington
Posts: 1059
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posted May 03, 2010 09:52 PM
If someone GAVE me a bmw, id sell the junk and but 7 other bikes....and build a shop.
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Black 06
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
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posted May 03, 2010 10:36 PM
There's a lot of hate towards this bmw..... why? They made a bike that has reset the standard for power.
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rtbain
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Posts: 244
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posted May 04, 2010 01:04 AM
Brand loyalty is a funny thing. It’s strange because the brand has absolutely no loyalty to you; it’s a lopsided love affair.
I wanted to go fast. The smart choice would have been a Busa. But everyone has a Busa so I bought a ZX14. I still remember Eddie Lawson smoking by me at Texas World on the beautifully prepared machine.
I don’t regret my decision one bit. Sure it’s going to be more difficult to hit the magic 200mph but what the hell, it’s a game and I like playing.
But to state that any bike is “the one” at the very least shows a limited interest in the sport of motorbikes.
I suffer an embarrassment of riches.
LSR/mile bike – Kawasaki ZX14
Two up street bike – BMW R1200GS (heated seats and grips)
Play bike – KTM 690SMR
Weird bike – 1975 Honda 550K1 with Sputnik side car
Enjoy each bike for what it is, not what you think it should be. The same is true of people.
Go Nick go. NOT go Kawasaki go.
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Randy
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RACNRAY
Expert Class
FAST OLD GUY
Posts: 178
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posted May 04, 2010 09:26 AM
quote:
Here is the dyno result for my 2008, bone-stock zx-14 with only 1,700 miles:
My shop is at seal level and we typically have 30.3 to 30.5" barametric pressure. I see the b/p is in the 27" range, where is the dyno located and what is the altitude? The temp and humidity numbers are favorable and not conducive to an aggressive SAE correction factor as shown, so i am curious as to the elevation. Higher elevations have lower b/p, so that would make sense.
The difference in power between the 2 runs is the engine was not hot enuff on the first run, an old drag racing term would be "there was not enuff heat in the motor". All engines need to have all the parts up to optimal temps, along with oil and coolant temps too.
The second run is a more accurate indication of power from this skoot, and maybe a third run could of been higher. To put things into perspective...due to the low b/p, the "actual" or "uncorrected" power would be down around 149.8 h.p. This shows how altitude/low b.p. has a negative affect on power, and how the SAE correction factor works to bring power levels more inlione with their standard seal level conditions.
If memory serves me correctly, the 2008 and later 14's on my dyno have been aroun 160 SAE, so your skoot is certainly in the ballpark. My 2009 will be on the dyno soon, so i will share those runs when i get them done.
As has been said, continue to use this dyno shop, but my suggestion to them is to fully warm up the skoot before making any runs. My goal is to have less than .5 H.P. variance between runs for consistency sake. I understand this was a free dyno day so they may have better standards of dyno operation when performing mods and/or tuning.
HAVE FUN!!
RACNRAY
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no chicken strips on this south florida boy's skoots!!
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted May 04, 2010 10:13 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 4 May 2010 18:48
lmao . you 14 guys are scared . rtbain i sure hope a stock bmw don't out LSR your zx14 . but at the last texas mile i think the bagger harley went faster than your zx14 .
FLAME -ON
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Nick2k
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted May 04, 2010 10:30 AM
Racnray,
You are correct, the bike was more warmed up for the second run.
Here was the chain of events:
1) Push bike onto dyno
2) Start it up, let it run for a bit
3) Do a slow roll-on in 5th gear to redline (that result is not on the graph)
4) Do a quicker roll on in 5th gear (1st dyno graph result)
5) Snap throttle open as fast as possible in 5th gear (2nd dyno result)
After finishing that last run the temp was still only at 2 bars.
Elevation of the dyno shop was around 2,500ft above sea level,and was located in Cheney, Washington.
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rtbain
Expert Class
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Posts: 244
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posted May 04, 2010 11:37 AM
quote:
rtbain i sure hope a stock bmw don't out LSR your zx14 . but at the last texas mile i think the bagger harley went faster than your zx14 .
Shoot a lot of bikes went faster than mine. That was one fast bagger wasn’t it? Way cool. I think I did better than the bagger but that’s not the point. I go there to have fun and TRY to go faster than my last attempt. So far I have accomplished that. I think there may be a misunderstanding about LSR/Mile bikes. My 14 is a dedicated mile/LSR bike. They aren’t necessarily the fastest on the block; they are about trying to do your personal best.
As for flame wars, well I grew out of that game a decade or so ago. It’s kinda sad carrying all that negativity around all the time. But I do understand its allure. Have at it.
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Randy
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rtbain
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posted May 04, 2010 11:48 AM
quote:
Three other ZX-14's came out to the free dyno day, each of which had mods. Mine made a great "baseline" for them, and in turn they made great examples of what different mods would do for my bike. Win-win for everyone!
Nick,
Next dyno run you will probably want to get an exhaust gas measurement. The exhaust gases tell you if the fuel injector is set up correctly. In my experience the ZX14 is way rich (too much fuel) at high RPM.
Probably one of the biggest HP gains for the dollar is a pipe and some sort of fuel management system. Many people use PCIII or PCV but there are other units available. Recommending a pipe is like recommending oil, it tends to start a flame war.
I would go with a pipe that offers maps. While not perfect they will get you very close and shorten the amount of time you have to spend on the dyno getting that last HP. For street use canned maps will probably work fine.
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Randy
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Nick2k
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted May 04, 2010 12:45 PM
I think that's good advice, Randy. Since this was a freebie dyno run, no rpms or exhaust gas was measured, although the dyno has that ability.
I'm going to hold off until the bike has around 5,000 miles on it, just to be sure everything is "settled". At that point I may invest in a PowerCommander and exhaust. When I do go to another exhaust system, I plan on keeping it dual. I like the symmetry, plus (at least in my mind) it seems counter-intuitive to go from 4 into 2 to 4 into 1...because, after all, a motor is just a "breathing machine", right? :-)
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RACNRAY
Expert Class
FAST OLD GUY
Posts: 178
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posted May 04, 2010 01:24 PM
quote:
Racnray,
You are correct, the bike was more warmed up for the second run.
Here was the chain of events:
1) Push bike onto dyno
2) Start it up, let it run for a bit
3) Do a slow roll-on in 5th gear to redline (that result is not on the graph)
4) Do a quicker roll on in 5th gear (1st dyno graph result)
5) Snap throttle open as fast as possible in 5th gear (2nd dyno result)
After finishing that last run the temp was still only at 2 bars.
Elevation of the dyno shop was around 2,500ft above sea level,and was located in Cheney, Washington.
THANX so much for the info. It helps me (and i hope others) to see how the correction factors work to kinda even things out. I was guessing you were at least 2000 feet above sea level, and with the cool ambient temp figured you were somewhere up north.
We always run the 14's on the dyno with at least 3 bars showing BEFORE a run is made. Gotta get "heat in the motor" for it to make power. If another run had been made with 3 bars showing you might of broke the 160 mark.
I will be dynoing my 14 later this week, prolly Friday. I have 1427 mls on it now. I just ordered a set of slip-ons so when they come in Friday i'll do back to back dyno runs to see the difference.
I told myself i would NOT go the performance route, but some free-er breathing cans will go to improve gas mileage, smooth out the motor and allow it to run a bit cooler, and take some weight off the skoot. I tend to throw this thing around and like to get it to rail a bit better. I have to start tearing down the Busa and spend the $$ on it, so i promise i'll stop here.
Really, i promise!!
RACNRAY
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no chicken strips on this south florida boy's skoots!!
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rtbain
Expert Class
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Posts: 244
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posted May 04, 2010 02:09 PM
Nick,
You are on the right track. Next time you wash you 14 have a look at the underside and you will find a surprise. Your exhaust system is a 4 into 2 into 1 into 2. All this changing and dividing has two purposes. Performance and appearance.
When two pipes are joined together and attached to a single outlet a cool thing happens. If gas, or fluid, flows through one pipe out the exhaust a vacuum is drawn on the other pipe. This vacuum helps remove exhaust gasses from a combustion chamber when the exhaust valve opens. A common term used in motorbike engines is scavenging.
Taken further if all four pipes are connected the scavenging effect becomes greater and “breathing” more efficient. Since these intermittent gas flows or pulses are dependent on RPM the efficiency of the system can be affected by connecting the pipes at different lengths. This is called tuning the exhaust.
The system must be optimized for a certain RPM band width. For most street engines the optimum is a 4 into 2 into 1. This combination prevents dips in the power band. But another consideration is aesthetics.
An engine needs a certain amount of muffler volume to operate efficiently. Rather than put one big muffler on one side designers often prefer twin cans. If looks better, and looks matter.
Sound also matters, that’s why there are so many Harleys on the market, arguably the best idle in motorcycling. Since stock pipes have to meet strict sound levels to be legal they have to be big. Since the buyer expects them to last a long time they have to be heavy.
I don’t know of anyone who puts a pipe on for performance alone. Even if performance is the deciding factor just about everyone loves the music of a nice system. If you prefer the looks of a twin can system go for it. It’s your bike, modify it as you wish.
Personally I would stay away from carbon fiber cans. While they look cool and tend to be lighter they require more maintenance. Most people choose carbon fiber for the looks, not the weight savings.
If I hear you correctly you are leaning towards a two can slip on system. It will look good, sound great and give modest performance gains. If performance is your goal go with a full 4 into 1 setup.
Let’s face it the ZX14 and Busa produce more horsepower than most riders can safely use on the street. So make you decision based on YOUR criteria, not someone else.
Many people will encourage you to remove the “flies” or get a TRE. Both of these modifications can give a solid low to mid-range HP boost. But your ’08 won’t benefit as much from this modification. Do it if you want to but having the power come on slower is not necessarily a bad thing, especially on wet streets.
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Randy
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Nick2k
Novice Class
Posts: 36
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posted May 04, 2010 04:18 PM
I think that is sound advice, and corroborates with what I have read elsewhere. That is, taking out the secondaries in an '08 or newer creates less of a dramatic difference than the earlier year.
The stock exhaust note is pretty mild, and if it were up to me I would probably go with something that is not chrome. The flat black is pretty cool, and the chrome distracts from it. I also would probably not go with carbon fiber, it's just not my thing.
I'm not really looking for huge power gains, but once the bike is fully broken in, I want to make sure it's burning fuel as it should and has a nice, smooth curve on the HP graph. It's got just a touch of wiggildy to it now.
And yes, exhaust opinions are just as varied as motor oil opinions. A little rumble would be nice, but I also don't want to wake the neighbors or end up deaf.
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rtbain
Expert Class
old, fat and slow
Posts: 244
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posted May 04, 2010 06:00 PM
Ever seen black chrome? Way cool.
Flat black on a header is a PITA. To keep it looking good it always needs repainting.
Not trying to start a pipe war but I have been very happy with my Brocks Alien head. But for a street bike I would go with a pipe that extended more to the rear.
Brocks has slip ons on sale:
http://prostores2.carrierzone.com/servlet/brockracing/Search?category=Clearance+Lane!
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Randy
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1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
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posted May 04, 2010 06:04 PM
quote:
quote:
rtbain i sure hope a stock bmw don't out LSR your zx14 . but at the last texas mile i think the bagger harley went faster than your zx14 .
I think there may be a misunderstanding about LSR/Mile bikes. My 14 is a dedicated mile/LSR bike. They aren’t necessarily the fastest on the block; they are about trying to do your personal best.
bullshitt .. the fastest bikes are what sells on monday . just look at brocks add up right .. do you think carbon fiber wheels made the bike run 272mph
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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