RACNRAY
Expert Class
FAST OLD GUY
Posts: 178
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posted April 09, 2010 07:37 AM
Edited By: RACNRAY on 9 Apr 2010 15:38
FLIES OUT DYNO INFO
I have not been back here that long as i was without a 14 for too long, so i don't know if i am posting info that may already be available in a search. Maybe this can be made a "sticky" to help others in the future.. I was reading in another thread bout taking the flies out, and there was a request for dyno info showing before and after. I figured i'd offer the results from my dyno session on my 2006 14.
The dyno session was done on my 2006 14 on June 13, 2006. Baseline runs were done at 5:41 pm on a completely stock skoot, and the last runs were done at 9:56 pm. Mileage on the skoot at the start was 1038. The first 2 mods which preceeded the removal of the flies was the installation and comparisons of our hi-flo air filter and a crankcase evac system.
I performed 2 different types of dyno runs, the typical full throttle runs, and 1/4 throttle runs,
which i felt might show more gains(and this proved to be partially true) than the full throttle runs. I am not listing the actual power and torque figures , but the gains along with the change in the air/fuel ratio.
FULL THROTTLE RESULTS...
@ 2,750...+ 3.5 hp & + 6.6 torque................a/f ratio went from 14-1 to 16.31 -1
@ 3000.....+ 5.8 hp & + 10 torque...........a/f ratio went from 13.43 -1 to 16.08-1
@ 3,500....+ 9 hp & + 13.3 torque............a/f ratio went from 13.10-1 to 15.16-1
@ 4000.....+ 6.7 hp & + 8.8 torque...........a/f ratio went from 12.87-1 to 15.12-1
@ 5000.....+2,3 hp & + 2,4 torque...........a/f ratio went from 13.43-1 to 13.94-1
Above 5000 rpm there were very small gains in power and torque,maybe on the order of 1, so not worth going further. The lean-out of the a/f ratio showed the necessity for re-mapping.
PART THROTTLE RUNS(1/4 THROTTLE)
@ 2,750...+ 5.5 hp & + 11.5 torque.................no a/f ratio available
@ 3000....+ 4.2 hp & 7.4 torque......................." " " "
@ 3,500...+ 7 hp & + 10.5 torque....................a/f ratio went from 14.09-1 to 15.63-1
@ 4000....+ 11 hp & 13.5 torque.....................a/f ratio went from 13.83-1 to 15.21-1
@ 5000....+ 12.3 hp & + 13 torque..................a/f ratio went from 13.01-1 to 14.92-1
The different gains between full and part throttle runs told me how the secondaries are opened by the ecu differently based on throttle position among other factors.
Again there is a noticeable lean-out of the a/f ratio in the part throttle runs.
As mentioned by others the seat of the pants dyno was very positive as far as acceleration, but what i did notice was a lean surge in cruise mode in the areas of rpm and throttle operation that mimicked the part throttle runs. There was also a slight lean hesitation off idle pulling away from a stop. All of this was cured when i later installed a PC3 and did the remapping.
So, for the 06-07 models that Kawi (poorly) decided to restrict the below 6000 rpm power, this mod is well worth it, and coupled with the appropriate mapping to compensate for the lean-out, makes for a much happier 14.
I am glad i just bought an 09, as i am happy with the torque that the 06 i had ,did not have. I can ride the 09 and not have to mess with it.
I hope this helps and can answer questions that, after almost 2 years of me not being here, i see are still being asked.
RACNRAY
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no chicken strips on this south florida boy's skoots!!
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68gts2

Zone Head
hobbies ( Beating you !!! )
Posts: 927
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posted April 09, 2010 08:03 AM
good info Ray
That is very good information Ray,but(you knew there was gonna be one)I have an 08 with the flies out and it is still a great mod on gen 2 14's. You are a data oriented guy so here's a test for you to try. Warm bike up to temp and from an idle whack the throtle to wot and back as quick as you can and listen to it rev. This will in no way hurt the motor because it will only jump up to between 4000 to 5000 rpm range. Remove flies and remap the new bike and repeat,but don't dare go wot this time or you will be beating up on her because it will be against the limiter before you know it. It is the same when riding it. Your wrist now controls the throttle and not a computer. That is really important when exiting corners or when he beast's front wheel is doing that levatation thing it likes to do. Just my 02 cents worth. O yea zx14fan will be here soon to tell you to save your money and get some sprockets. Jk jk zx14fan.
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Chromed-out,in the dirt 08SE with all the good stuff!!!
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted April 09, 2010 08:38 AM
OH man 68 that hurts.I belive the info but remember on the later models its only bellow 3gs that was my only point.Who rides bellow that.Now go get yourselfs some spreckets lol.
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RACNRAY
Expert Class
FAST OLD GUY
Posts: 178
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posted April 09, 2010 08:53 AM
YEA...i figured taking the flies out on Gen 2 will show improvements, but i'm not going down that route on my new skoot. If it remains with it's lean spot after break-in i'll put in a pc with a stock map to clean that area up, and maybe boost the gas mileage a bit.
Thru the years i have learned from one of the fast old guys i ride with on Sunday mornins...he has a new skoot every year and keeps it stock, tires,oil, taller w/shield, thats it.. Keeping that skoot as a workhorse allows him the time and $$ to have a race bike and do track days & road racing. My Busa is gonna get a major infusion of power here soon, so that is what i am looking forward to. I don't have the time to work on 2 skoots, so i hope that i can get one of my customers to do the fly mod on a Gen 2. If so i'll post up those results.
RACNRAY
____________
no chicken strips on this south florida boy's skoots!!
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INTIMIDA2OR

Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted April 09, 2010 11:54 AM
quote: I have not been back here that long as i was without a 14 for too long, so i don't know if i am posting info that may already be available in a search. Maybe this can be made a "sticky" to help others in the future.. I was reading in another thread bout taking the flies out, and there was a request for dyno info showing before and after. I figured i'd offer the results from my dyno session on my 2006 14.
The dyno session was done on my 2006 14 on June 13, 2006. Baseline runs were done at 5:41 pm on a completely stock skoot, and the last runs were done at 9:56 pm. Mileage on the skoot at the start was 1038. The first 2 mods which preceeded the removal of the flies was the installation and comparisons of our hi-flo air filter and a crankcase evac system.
I performed 2 different types of dyno runs, the typical full throttle runs, and 1/4 throttle runs,
which i felt might show more gains(and this proved to be partially true) than the full throttle runs. I am not listing the actual power and torque figures , but the gains along with the change in the air/fuel ratio.
FULL THROTTLE RESULTS...
@ 2,750...+ 3.5 hp & + 6.6 torque................a/f ratio went from 14-1 to 16.31 -1
@ 3000.....+ 5.8 hp & + 10 torque...........a/f ratio went from 13.43 -1 to 16.08-1
@ 3,500....+ 9 hp & + 13.3 torque............a/f ratio went from 13.10-1 to 15.16-1
@ 4000.....+ 6.7 hp & + 8.8 torque...........a/f ratio went from 12.87-1 to 15.12-1
@ 5000.....+2,3 hp & + 2,4 torque...........a/f ratio went from 13.43-1 to 13.94-1
Above 5000 rpm there were very small gains in power and torque,maybe on the order of 1, so not worth going further. The lean-out of the a/f ratio showed the necessity for re-mapping.
PART THROTTLE RUNS(1/4 THROTTLE)
@ 2,750...+ 5.5 hp & + 11.5 torque.................no a/f ratio available
@ 3000....+ 4.2 hp & 7.4 torque......................." " " "
@ 3,500...+ 7 hp & + 10.5 torque....................a/f ratio went from 14.09-1 to 15.63-1
@ 4000....+ 11 hp & 13.5 torque.....................a/f ratio went from 13.83-1 to 15.21-1
@ 5000....+ 12.3 hp & + 13 torque..................a/f ratio went from 13.01-1 to 14.92-1
The different gains between full and part throttle runs told me how the secondaries are opened by the ecu differently based on throttle position among other factors.
Again there is a noticeable lean-out of the a/f ratio in the part throttle runs.
As mentioned by others the seat of the pants dyno was very positive as far as acceleration, but what i did notice was a lean surge in cruise mode in the areas of rpm and throttle operation that mimicked the part throttle runs. There was also a slight lean hesitation off idle pulling away from a stop. All of this was cured when i later installed a PC3 and did the remapping.
So, for the 06-07 models that Kawi (poorly) decided to restrict the below 6000 rpm power, this mod is well worth it, and coupled with the appropriate mapping to compensate for the lean-out, makes for a much happier 14.
I am glad i just bought an 09, as i am happy with the torque that the 06 i had ,did not have. I can ride the 09 and not have to mess with it.
I hope this helps and can answer questions that, after almost 2 years of me not being here, i see are still being asked.
RACNRAY
Great info!
____________
'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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INTIMIDA2OR

Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted April 09, 2010 12:00 PM
quote: OH man 68 that hurts.I belive the info but remember on the later models its only bellow 3gs that was my only point.Who rides bellow that.Now go get yourselfs some spreckets lol.
C'mon you can't tell me that at every stoplight you take off at 4000k rpms ... Do you?
It's nice to have the extra umph to take off .
Of course once you're going you gotta be freakin retarded to ride around at 3k all day long .
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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zx14fan
Zone Head
Posts: 547
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posted April 09, 2010 02:58 PM
No but then again you dont always need alot of power to cruz around.
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INTIMIDA2OR

Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted April 09, 2010 03:16 PM
I'll take all the power I can get
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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j-bird09

Novice Class
09 se
Posts: 49
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posted April 09, 2010 05:22 PM
i have the pcv can i change the numbers my self with this system even with a map from some one else
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09se flies out m14 bmc street pcv jeffo map 16t
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2heavy

Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted April 10, 2010 09:05 AM
Thank you very much. I just joined the Forum and the 14 and had asked that question on the flies out thread. This is exactly what I was looking for because you know sometimes the "seat dyno" is a pretty subjective thing. Based on your info and some on Brock's site the mod is well worth the effort.
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68gts2

Zone Head
hobbies ( Beating you !!! )
Posts: 927
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posted April 11, 2010 04:46 AM
J-bird I don't think I completely understand your question. Are you asking if you can adjust your pcv to comensate for fly removal? If that's the case,you could go about it that way,but it would be easier to just get a new map for no flies. If I didn't understand your question right its my bad.
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Chromed-out,in the dirt 08SE with all the good stuff!!!
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