oilfieldtrash
Zone Head
Kawasaki enthusiast
Posts: 506
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posted January 29, 2010 08:11 AM
What kind of horsepower are you looking at? How much does the total car weigh?
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'09 zx6r lime green bone stock
'07 white S.E. ZX-14 sold
  
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted January 29, 2010 11:33 AM
We're looking at having 260 to 280 reliable BHP hopefully on the car which weighs 420kg without driver.
Any turbo guys out there who can suggest what fuel pressure to use?? 60psi? more? less?
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted January 29, 2010 12:29 PM
quote:
We're looking at having 260 to 280 reliable BHP hopefully on the car which weighs 420kg without driver.
Any turbo guys out there who can suggest what fuel pressure to use?? 60psi? more? less?
I am setting mine at 42 psi but my injectors are twice the size of yours,
i have heard that you have yo really crank the fuel pressure up with the stock injectors thats why they use a FMU it will take the fuel pressure up like 8:1 for every pound of boost, so say your static fuel pressure is at 42psi and you make 7psi of boost the fuel pressure would be 98psi with a FMU
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INTIMIDA2OR
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posted January 30, 2010 04:24 PM
quote:
We're looking at having 260 to 280 reliable BHP hopefully on the car which weighs 420kg without driver.
Nice! 
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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dcjens
Pro
Wet side of Washington
Posts: 1059
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posted January 31, 2010 07:16 PM
schwing!! post more full pics/vids
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Black 06
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted February 01, 2010 06:55 AM
Yep, will do soon hopefully!
No turbo guys out there to suggest Fuel pressure??
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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JDC
Zone Head
Posts: 570
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posted February 01, 2010 09:25 AM
same here. static at about 42-44, increases under PSI to 80-90 at .5 bar.
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dubious
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posted February 05, 2010 06:49 PM
if you run FMU most are approx 7:1 rising rate on the 14.
Thats 7 psi fuel for every pound of boost up to about 9 psi. with static at 42 psi, and final around 100 psi on stock injectors.
You will run out of fuel on stock injectors at 1:1 risning rate regulator, and if you think you can do static 42 psi and modulate only injector duration, that is a fantasy dream.
if you wish you can send me your phone number and I can call you, or you could ask the same ppl I get my info from, ..... Chris Jones or Terry ala Mr Turbo.
Monitoring intake temps at extended high rpm, will be as critical as exhaust gas temps.
Corky Bell makes a great book on turbo's that can be directly applied to any form of forced induction.
he covers everything you could imagine from plumbing, fueling, ignition timing, exhaust....
you name it.... it s good read!
eldubois at telus.net
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dubious
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posted February 10, 2010 02:48 PM
http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx
http://www.injectorrx.com/sizing.html
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted February 11, 2010 11:24 AM
Cheers Dubious.
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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johnbull
Expert Class
Posts: 314
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posted February 23, 2010 11:51 AM
We finally got the car on the dyno today and started to make progress untill exactly what Dubious said above happened...........max'd out duty cycle on the stock injectors with 1:1 rising regulator.
We took it up to about 220rwhp on only 5PSI of boost but the injectors started to max out at about 9500rpm.
Dubious, would you know where I can get a set of bigger straight fit injectors? Probab about 550cc ones correct? or do you think I would require more than that, somethink like a 750cc??
Cheers.
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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dubious
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posted February 23, 2010 02:31 PM
 Edited By: dubious on 24 Feb 2010 01:29
Hey John.
I do not know of any larger injectors that are a direct fit.
Most will require the injector bucket to be machined.
Schnitz sells Bosch injectors, 69 lb, I am not sure if they fit directly
http://www.schnitzracingstore.com/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=5136834&showprevnext=1
call them to ensure your harness plugs in directly, it would suck if you needed harness adapters, and didn't get them,
Personally I would also get Comptons fuel rail from him or schnitz:
Its a great addition, because you have alternate connections, all ready machined, and you can plug the return if you wish as well.
http://www.schnitzracingstore.com/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=5128995&showprevnext=1
ryan@schnitzracing.com
nick@schnitzracing.com
Tech Line (260)728-9730
Outside US: (260)728-9457
RC Engineering sells 52 lb injectors as well, the 550 ones, but they are not direct fit, and retail $600 including the harness adapters.
Considering where you live, and their technical experience with supercharging bikes,
I would call BigCC too. Shippping should be fast. although prices steep.
http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/contactUs.asp
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Although not the most favourite route for builders, and not the safest with all of the fuel pressure associated.....
The cheapest, simplest alternative to all of this is a rising rate regulator 6:1 based off boost, with stock injectors will get you around 320 RWHP because 9 psi boost will equal 54 psi rise in fuel pressure, bringing you around 42+54= 96 psi total, whereas 1:1 rise would only be a total of 42+9=51 psi
begi FMU is reknown to be the most reliable of these rising rate regulators.
http://www.bellengineering.net/product_info.php?cPath=7_76&products_id=220
You have options!
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natural selection.....
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01smokes
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Posts: 2243
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posted February 23, 2010 03:30 PM
Edited By: 01smokes on 23 Feb 2010 23:34
quote:
We finally got the car on the dyno today and started to make progress untill exactly what Dubious said above happened...........max'd out duty cycle on the stock injectors with 1:1 rising regulator.
We took it up to about 220rwhp on only 5PSI of boost but the injectors started to max out at about 9500rpm.
Dubious, would you know where I can get a set of bigger straight fit injectors? Probab about 550cc ones correct? or do you think I would require more than that, somethink like a 750cc??
Cheers.
Im running the 725cc injectors from schintz i have a fuel rail from compton in my bike, it was a tight fit to get the rail in with the big injectors but we got it to fit and its all plumed up now. The only thing im thinking of now is if the bike will idel with the big injectors with just the pcIII tuning it. The bike is on E85 and that uses about 30% more fuel than gas so im hoping the 725s will act close to 550s in the bike.
Oh also the injectors just plug it to your stock harness no cutting or splicing needed and your car will be able to run the rail from compton and big injectors no problem the frame gets close to the rail on the bikes i dont think you will have that problem with the motor being in a car
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01smokes
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posted February 23, 2010 03:43 PM
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dubious
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posted February 23, 2010 05:32 PM
 , thanks for sharing smokes, I learned something new today!
I was under the impression that the extreme's in upper and lower pulsewidth control on the Bosch injectors was superior, in fact so good it would idle as good as a bike with 550's?
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natural selection.....
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01smokes
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posted February 23, 2010 06:49 PM
quote:
, thanks for sharing smokes, I learned something new today!
I was under the impression that the extreme's in upper and lower pulsewidth control on the Bosch injectors was superior, in fact so good it would idle as good as a bike with 550's?
Thats what i heard as well but its always scary trying something new that people have not tried before.
so anyways the bike is done i just need to run a few vacuum lines and see if it will fire up, i have not been in a hurry because the weather has been so shitty lately
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01smokes
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posted February 23, 2010 07:36 PM
quote:
, thanks for sharing smokes, I learned something new today!
I was under the impression that the extreme's in upper and lower pulsewidth control on the Bosch injectors was superior, in fact so good it would idle as good as a bike with 550's?
How is the idle and rideabillity with 550s i have never really heard anyone talk about them on he 14?
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01smokes
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posted February 23, 2010 10:37 PM
quote:
quote:
We finally got the car on the dyno today and started to make progress untill exactly what Dubious said above happened...........max'd out duty cycle on the stock injectors with 1:1 rising regulator.
We took it up to about 220rwhp on only 5PSI of boost but the injectors started to max out at about 9500rpm.
Dubious, would you know where I can get a set of bigger straight fit injectors? Probab about 550cc ones correct? or do you think I would require more than that, somethink like a 750cc??
Cheers.
Im running the 725cc injectors from schintz i have a fuel rail from compton in my bike, it was a tight fit to get the rail in with the big injectors but we got it to fit and its all plumed up now. The only thing im thinking of now is if the bike will idel with the big injectors with just the pcIII tuning it. The bike is on E85 and that uses about 30% more fuel than gas so im hoping the 725s will act close to 550s in the bike.
Oh also the injectors come with harness adapters to plug it to your stock harness no cutting or splicing needed and your car will be able to run the rail from compton and big injectors no problem the frame gets close to the rail on the bikes i dont think you will have that problem with the motor being in a car
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01smokes
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posted February 23, 2010 10:40 PM
Oh also John what did you set your static fuel pressure at when you ran out of fuel on the dyno??
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johnbull
Expert Class
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posted February 24, 2010 06:37 AM
quote:
Oh also John what did you set your static fuel pressure at when you ran out of fuel on the dyno??
1st we were running 44psi then we tried increasing and went all the way up to 60 psi but still couldnt get enough fuel up top.
I heard somewhere that the 08/09 models have bigger injectors than the 06/07's. Is this correct?
We spoke to Holeshot racing in the UK this morning and they are sending us some 690's which is what they suggested. Lets hope they get here quick so we can get the car back on the dyno.
Thanks for all your input guys.
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John Bul Racing. Malta.
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dubious
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posted February 24, 2010 08:14 AM
yes the 08 up are supposed to be larger injectors. I haven't tested them, just what I have read and been told. Not enough for boost though. you should be good with the 690, with the static dropped back to 42 psi.
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01smokes
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posted February 28, 2010 10:59 AM
i fired mine up last night and it started right up and it idles like a stock bike with the massive 725cc injectors in it, its crazy how good they idle i am really impressed no joke,
ill build a map for E85 and than ill throw some pump gas in to see if they will still work on gas i sure hope they do.
Ill start tuning Monday on my 6# and a 10# tunes ill let you guys know how everything goes
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dubious
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posted February 28, 2010 01:28 PM
nice!
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Compton
Zone Head
Posts: 969
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posted February 28, 2010 01:34 PM
do you think the newer bosch 1000cc injectors will support 400rwhp on E85?
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b.w.
zx14, little longer, little louder, little lower.
08 Busa, just a little longer and louder and lower than the 14
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dubious
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posted February 28, 2010 01:44 PM
yup!
70 psi fuel pressure to match 28 psi boost, on 1:1 regulator
42 psi static +28 psi ramp (to match boost)= 70 PSI
Just round figures, and estimations for boost requirement.
you would need 630cc injectors at 70 psi fuel pressure to make 450 crank HP.
on E85 the fuel volume goes up approx 30% I think?
you should be able to make 500 HP on E85 with 1000 cc injectors
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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