01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted July 26, 2009 10:44 PM
Tach Signal
where can i find a good tach signal for a window switch, the red and white wire coming off the ECU is not working good for me
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AcadianaZX
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posted July 26, 2009 11:01 PM
Hey smokes, For my MSD shift light I use the #4 coil wire. In your case I would not know what your application would use pos. or negative. But I get a better signal there than the #1 coil for some reason.
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted July 26, 2009 11:42 PM
quote:
Hey smokes, For my MSD shift light I use the #4 coil wire. In your case I would not know what your application would use pos. or negative. But I get a better signal there than the #1 coil for some reason.
thanks ill try that, with the #1 it keeps going crazy it will work at different RPMs every time i test it.
Does anyone know if it would work better if i were to pull a signal from one of the coil wires and not from the ECU pins?
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rtbain
Expert Class
old, fat and slow
Posts: 244
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posted July 27, 2009 04:08 AM
This information was found in the “Kawasaki Motorcycle Service Manual” part number 99924-1362-02.
On pages 16-70, 16-71 an explanation is given about how the instrument cluster receives its information from the ECU via the CAN bus. Since this is a communications channel there is no simple way to pick up a signal. More CAN bus information can be found on page 3-96.
On pages 16-12, 16-13 the schematic shows the fuel injectors are switched negative. The same schematic shows the coils are also switched negative. This will affect the application of things like data loggers and shift lights.
Do not use the same input for different applications. The devices connected may interfere with each other.
16-24 lists the primary peak voltage for the stick coil as 72 VDC or more. 16-46 and 16-47 give a stick coil test procedure. It also lists a nominal voltage of 72VDC or more. While most devices are protected against over voltage the connected device can be destroyed.
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Randy
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Shane661
Needs a life
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posted July 27, 2009 04:36 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 27 Jul 2009 12:38
quote:
quote:
Hey smokes, For my MSD shift light I use the #4 coil wire. In your case I would not know what your application would use pos. or negative. But I get a better signal there than the #1 coil for some reason.
thanks ill try that, with the #1 it keeps going crazy it will work at different RPMs every time i test it.
Does anyone know if it would work better if i were to pull a signal from one of the coil wires and not from the ECU pins?
When my bike was ran on the dyno, they were able to easily pick up the rpm signal from the coil wire going to the ecu. My air shifter already hooks up there, so it was easy for them to access.
I have also used the pigtail wire that Schnitz sells, that goes on the coil. I am not so sure that is a clean signal, though. I had some issues with the shift light flickering, but have not diagnosed why. The shift light includes a resistor to help eliminate noise.
Shane
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Douglas Home
Zone Head
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posted July 27, 2009 04:38 AM
Hi Randle you said "Do not use the same input for different applications"
Do you mean use a different coil wire for shift light andwindow switch?
Say coil # 1 for shift light and coil # 2 for window switch ?
Anyone experienced problems looping two devices of one coil?
Definitely dont want nitrous activated by the shift light ,if this is what you are meaning
may happen!!!
If this is an issue it could have disasterous affects for many people!
Definitely want to know the facts and realities on this before next raceday.
What do the resident gurus think about this one?????
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Doug Mackay Australia
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted July 27, 2009 05:56 AM
when the window switch is on the red/white wire from the ECU the window switch will work if i roll in to the gas slowly the window switch works the way it should but if i twist hard it turns on when it wants to and turns off when it wants to some times it does not turn on even
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Shane661
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posted July 27, 2009 07:13 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 27 Jul 2009 15:15
quote:
when the window switch is on the red/white wire from the ECU the window switch will work if i roll in to the gas slowly the window switch works the way it should but if i twist hard it turns on when it wants to and turns off when it wants to some times it does not turn on even
Sounds like noise, perhaps try an injector wire or some noise reduction circuitry (resistor?) on the line.
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
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posted July 27, 2009 07:45 AM
Good info here guys, I inrend to datalog about 10 channels, so any info pertinant is most appreicated.
Are the resistors used to dampen noise specific for thnat application, do they need to be relative to the voltage, and will the resultant voltage drop create calibration issues with the channel being data logged?
Do you put them inline of the voltage tap for the datalogger, or does it go on the cct between the ecu and device?
Does anyone have any good links to websites for wiring datalogging components?
Electricity is definately not one of my strengths....LOL
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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rtbain
Expert Class
old, fat and slow
Posts: 244
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posted July 27, 2009 09:31 AM
quote:
Hi Randle you said "Do not use the same input for different applications"
Do you mean use a different coil wire for shift light andwindow switch?
Say coil # 1 for shift light and coil # 2 for window switch ?
Anyone experienced problems looping two devices of one coil?
Definitely dont want nitrous activated by the shift light ,if this is what you are meaning
may happen!!!
If this is an issue it could have disasterous affects for many people!
Definitely want to know the facts and realities on this before next raceday.
What do the resident gurus think about this one?????
I am definitely no expert. When installing the Dynatek Shift Minder the instructions warned against using the input for more than one electrical device. I work with data logging systems for industrial applications and have found that components from different manufacturers ‘like’ to have their own inputs.
Dynatek uses the injector pulse (negative side). In my reading of the electrical schematic and the manual it appears the stick coils receive around 70VDC from the ECU. I cannot personally confirm this.
I data log, TPS, RPM, AFR, Inlet Pressure and ambient pressure on an Innovate DL32. Most data loggers of which I am aware use 5VDC inputs for transducers (pressure, temps, etc.)
Innovate makes good products that are reasonably user friendly. There is also a good aftermarket for accessories. Only downside is their connectors and SD card. The connectors had a problem with working loose until I used a hot glue gun to set them in place. The SD card would sometimes get ‘bounced’ out of the slot. I stopped that with masking tape.
If you do go the data logging route I would highly recommend a dyno run to calibrate everything. Calibration may be the wrong word. Compare is better.
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Randy
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted July 27, 2009 11:58 AM
and also what cylinder mode are you guys using to set up your window switch i was using, 2 cylinder mode
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted July 27, 2009 12:10 PM
that's what I was told to use on my NOS Mini
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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Douglas Home
Zone Head
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posted July 27, 2009 08:15 PM
I'm using 2 cylinder mode on my raptor shift/launch light ,works OK!!!
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Doug Mackay Australia
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted July 27, 2009 10:31 PM
Randle,
In the next week or 2 I will also be installing a DL32, with TCH-4, and XD-16.
can you email me?
eldubois at telus dot net
Maybe email me your phone number, time zone and good time to call
IF? you don't mind me picking your brain a little?
Thanks,
Lyle
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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AcadianaZX
Advertiser
Posts: 530
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posted July 27, 2009 11:16 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Hey smokes, For my MSD shift light I use the #4 coil wire. In your case I would not know what your application would use pos. or negative. But I get a better signal there than the #1 coil for some reason.
thanks ill try that, with the #1 it keeps going crazy it will work at different RPMs every time i test it.
Does anyone know if it would work better if i were to pull a signal from one of the coil wires and not from the ECU pins?
When my bike was ran on the dyno, they were able to easily pick up the rpm signal from the coil wire going to the ecu. My air shifter already hooks up there, so it was easy for them to access.
I have also used the pigtail wire that Schnitz sells, that goes on the coil. I am not so sure that is a clean signal, though. I had some issues with the shift light flickering, but have not diagnosed why. The shift light includes a resistor to help eliminate noise.
Shane
Hey Shane, Easy pickup sounds great. I'm not electrical savy. I'm going to hook up a TPRS Schnitz box for an RPM activated switch. I don't want to run the rpm pickup all the way to the coils. Which wire at the ECU is the coil wire. Thanks
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Douglas Home
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posted July 28, 2009 12:18 AM
Coil wires at ECU are
coil #1 - white/red stripe
coil#2 - white/blue stripe
coil#3 - white/green stripe
coil#4 - white/yellow stripe
If you also need the TPS (WOT) it is terminal 26 left hand ECU plug , yellow/white.
Goodluck!
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Doug Mackay Australia
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AcadianaZX
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posted July 28, 2009 12:33 AM
quote:
Coil wires at ECU are
coil #1 - white/red stripe
coil#2 - white/blue stripe
coil#3 - white/green stripe
coil#4 - white/yellow stripe
If you also need the TPS (WOT) it is terminal 26 left hand ECU plug , yellow/white.
Goodluck!
Thank you Douglas. Today I finely get off the boat to go home. Tommorrow TPRS will be on the bike auto shifting.
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01smokes
Needs a job
Posts: 2243
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posted July 28, 2009 01:01 AM
well i ended up using the #4 injector wire off the ECU and it works great all others dont work on my bike
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rtbain
Expert Class
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Posts: 244
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posted July 28, 2009 02:06 AM
Thank you Douglas. Today I finely get off the boat to go home. Tommorrow TPRS will be on the bike auto shifting.
I have heard scary things about auto shift. When I questioned Muzzy's they were dead set against it because it took control from the rider. Thier feeling was if things went wrong they could go wrong in a big way. Wheel spin was an example given.
May I ask your opinion on the matter?
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Randy
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AcadianaZX
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posted July 28, 2009 03:08 AM
Yes wheelspin could be a big problem when shifting with an air shifter period, auto or button shifting. I will have to pay a little attention to the tach to know the shift is coming. I haven't had wheel spin since I switched to the Shinko. The track I run at in South La. is preped very well so I don't think I'll have much trouble. Also you don't want wheelspin when shifting because you could bend shift forks in the trans. I'll be using auto shift for bracket racing. Those are the things I lookout for.
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted July 28, 2009 05:09 AM
acadiana, where do you run? State capitol or No Problem?
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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AcadianaZX
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Posts: 530
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posted July 28, 2009 07:43 AM
quote:
acadiana, where do you run? State capitol or No Problem?
State Capitol
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted July 28, 2009 08:31 AM
quote:
quote:
acadiana, where do you run? State capitol or No Problem?
State Capitol
 : I can't wait til they open up the Sunday's again
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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AcadianaZX
Advertiser
Posts: 530
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posted July 28, 2009 12:51 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
acadiana, where do you run? State capitol or No Problem?
State Capitol
: I can't wait til they open up the Sunday's again
You got that right. Been there for one Sunday this year. Got to hot lap it and made some 9.80 passes to get my liscense. I'll be there Friday on the white ZX14. Should be up to 9.60 or .50. Give me a holla.
James
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06redzx14
Pro
Posts: 1022
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posted July 29, 2009 08:05 AM
I won't make it until the Sundays are open again, but I'll be at No Problem next Thursday.
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06 alien head, no flies, PC+hub, 16/45 44 43, air shifter, dry shot
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