Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted May 18, 2009 06:17 AM
 Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 18 May 2009 14:18
Renton Kawasaki F*ed up 'Some Guys' bike
Met Some Guy at the dyno shootout last saturday, real nice easy going guy - I dont think he stopped smiling the whole 4 hours he was there. Unfortunately, Renton Kawasaki took advantage of his easy going manner. Matter of fact, that easy going manner of his is why I'm calling that dealer out for him on here, instead of him. He's too nice a guy to dwell on things like this. I, however, am not that nice.
Last year he got his 14 new from them, and kept commenting on here about how it couldnt wheelie without clutching it up etc.. and we kept saying there was something wrong with the bike. Dealer dissagreed but when the piston finally let go (think he said it was diagnosed as the wrist pin came lose?) they had to fix it on warranty. At the time we all told him to get a new engine, but it ended up being rebuilt. Which, as always it seems, led to more problems:
It vibrates. Alot - no, make that " A L O T !!! " He was under the impression it might be the SMEG he had installed when they put the engine back in (thought he said thats what the dealer told him but not 100% sure). Being assured that was normal, he has driven it all over the state of Washington for his job - thousands of miles a month.
He kept mentioning the vibration and asked me to ride his bike, I finally agreed. Holy Christ I could hear the vibration standing next to it just lightly rapping the throttle (yes, it was so bad I HEARD IT). Riding it, I hit about the 20' mark and I was ready to hit the kill switch to save the engine from its impending doom. Told him it was F*ed up, that he shouldnt ride it, and that if I was too bet I would say they got the counterbalance shaft out of alignment by 180deg.
QUESTION IS: for the engine builders, dealers and tuners here do you think all that vibration killed his bearings? Bike is at the dealer now and they are just realigning the balancer. I say make them eat, at the minimum, the cost for a set of new bearings.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
  
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted May 18, 2009 06:26 AM
Since it was a warranty repair he should at least let Kawasaki know what the dealer screwed up. That way if he has a failure, he at least has a claim if the dealer screams no warranty.
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Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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DogoZX
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted May 18, 2009 08:13 AM
Was this RMC or Kent Kawasaki?
I've had some issues with Kent Kawasaki but never any with RMC.
Kent Kawasaki couldn't even diagnose a blown head gasket on my zx9r, and are the main reason I now try to do all of my own wrenching. And last time I was in there, they had uninspected '07's sittin' on the floor for sale. 
Some Guy, I'd suggest taking your bike to another dealer, asking for a new engine, and not take no for an answer.
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Sticks_n_Stones
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Posts: 3930
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posted May 18, 2009 08:44 AM
RMC I believe is the only dealer in Renton, right? I have a IM out there for Some Guy, he should be here shortly.
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted May 18, 2009 09:01 AM
Edited By: dubious on 18 May 2009 17:05
Hard to say stix,
Is vibrating like an engine with the igntion wire crossed?
How bad?
The desert guys used to take out the counterbalancers on the big XR600 singles, which are not internaly balanced , and they would hammer the bearings bad.
The zx14 is internally balanced, the secondary balancers are for smoothing out the engine further. Big singles are real bad compared to inline 4 cylinders, to begin with for balancing.
I have spoken with several ppl , including Bill Eason who have told me the zx14 runs real smooth without the balancers, which is where I am going with my turbo.
I know for a fact the zx14 is internally balanced. Seen it with my own eyes.
Running the secondaries out of time would be not good, but not sure if it would be catastrophic... if it vibrated like a Harley I would be contacting KAWASAKI directly in reference to the repairs, and workmanship done... especially if the dealer is a knob about it.
Get a second opinions from another dealer or two 1st, back up your story before they try to blow you off.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted May 18, 2009 09:17 AM
Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 18 May 2009 17:23
Rode a zx14 that had been stroked a month ago, guy had it fully balanced and removed the balance shafts. He was cool and let me drive it around the parking lot. It vibrated about as much as a first gen Busa, but it came through the gas tank and vibrated my nut sack. Just like Some Guys did (hope he aint having any more kids). Of course, that bike didnt vibrate even half as much as Some Guys, but it was similar.
I cant verify what he did to the engine, but he did mention I should get my mods done by Skagit Powersports because he's "the best guy in the state for building the zx14's". I've met those guys and stomped there claimed 192hp '06 GSXR 1000 'race only, first time its ever been on the street' bike in the mountains doing 150+mph sweepers. 192hp my ass...
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Some Guy
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted May 18, 2009 01:45 PM
Edited By: Some Guy on 18 May 2009 21:55
Hey Sticks, I appreciate the thread.
The dealer is RMC. It should first be made known that this outfit is a 5 Star Classy operation. Every department has treated me with tons of respect and I can't say enough good things about them. I will absolutely buy my next bike with them, though it'll be a few years away I'm sure.
Now I'm a computer tech by trade. I own my own company, built via word-of mouth. I fix and maintain complete networks, from the switches and routers, to the severs, PC's , printers. If it's in a business office, I can fix it or wire it or whatever. That being said, I know what it's like from the tech's view, and I totally respect their experience and expertise. Now I spoke directly with the mechanic who worked on it. He showed me all the manuals and pics he had to work with and I can see how the mistake could have been made. He even told me that there was uncertainty in regards to the installation of the counter-balancers. ( I was bold enough to ask him directly, as I was told he was their top tech, "have you ever installed one of these before?"). He just looked at me and didn't give me a straight answer.
That's where everything left off. I will bring my bike back out on Thursday. I must say, if you consider all the trips I've made to that dealer and the cost of those trips, I could have bought me a full set of leathers. Sure would be nice if they offer to give me one 
Now you bring up a great point. One that my lack of motorcyle mechanical knowledge didn't think of. What sort of damage could have been done to the bike? I will be calling them Tuesday, first thing in the morning, and ask them to ask Kawasaki.
Now if anyone is to blame, it would be Kawasaki in my book. The dealer made two bad decisions, how to put it back together, and the worst decision, to give my bike back to me with that type of vibration going on. But Kawasaki did not inform or provide enough information for them to do the job correctly. I think that since they put it together, and it ran great, they probably assumed it was the aftermarket pipes. They didn't seem too familiar with Brocks when I brought them in to be installed. Also, when I spoke with them on Saturday, they took me a bit more seriously when I told them I just visited with two owners of a ZX14, one with Brocks and the Muzzy, and they felt smooth. It was at that point that they pulled the tech off another job to take a look at my bike, ride it, tighten the engine mounts, and so on.
Thanks again for riding it Sticks. Sorry that I kept buggin' ya, but I knew that something had to be wrong. Remember, I've been riding a 1985 900 Ninja all these years, so I have a different level of expectations. My 14 feels more like a GPZ1100 with a Kerker header on it. But that's what hopped up bikes used to feel like, so I really didn't know. Now I know, and I won't take less then what I felt riding yours.
...and about those wheelies. On my little spin on your bike I hit the gas in first gear, maybe at 10 mph hour, and your bike went skyward in an instant. Mine never did that. Even after the rebuild, that front wheel has only come up a few times, but always at a higher rpm. However, since we were so close in power, and I'm talking about your 163 HP without deflecting the air to my 160.7, and your 100.5 torque to my 98.5, I am guessing it's because you have the flies out to get that power so soon. Too bad I couldn't red-line it a few times in the open road.
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'08 SE ZX-14
'14 1000r Ninja (wife's)
1985 900 Ninja
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SteveWFL
Moderator
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posted May 18, 2009 02:13 PM
stealerships are horrid
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted May 18, 2009 02:38 PM
Hey wait a minute here, Some Guy didnt I tell you to use second only so you didnt accidently wheely it??? Some Guys.... oh wait lol.
As far as checking the bearings, dont take no for an answer: it needs new bearings, period. I've seen built small blocks and big blocks that were balanced bad die very quick deaths from being slightly out of balance, and they dont rev to 11,000rpms! Which is why I did this post that no one is posting in to help convince you to get new bearings...
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'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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Some Guy
Expert Class
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posted May 18, 2009 02:41 PM
Yeah you did tell me to start off in 2nd, I thought you were joking. (What me worry?).
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'08 SE ZX-14
'14 1000r Ninja (wife's)
1985 900 Ninja
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Shane661
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posted May 18, 2009 02:45 PM
Any chance that the motor mounts are loose?
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Some Guy
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posted May 18, 2009 03:34 PM
That's what they checked for on Saturday. He said he did a little tightening on the front mounts where the sliders are installed. I didn't notice any difference. The presence is always there, but it's really noticeable from 4000 to 6000 rpm.
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'08 SE ZX-14
'14 1000r Ninja (wife's)
1985 900 Ninja
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Obba
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posted May 18, 2009 04:44 PM
Good on ya Sticks,
At least Some Guy can have a bit more ammo and knowledge when he goes back to the dealer -
He might point them to this site so that there mechs can take note that lots of members here know what they are talking about.
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dubious
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Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted May 18, 2009 05:12 PM
The kawi manual does leave alot to be desired compared to a suzuki manual...
The kawi manual describes how to put it together in stages, without tying some of them together.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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LLcooljebb
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Upgrade I Must
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posted May 18, 2009 08:01 PM
Edited By: LLcooljebb on 19 May 2009 04:03
quote:
As far as checking the bearings, dont take no for an answer: it needs new bearings, period. I've seen built small blocks and big blocks that were balanced bad die very quick deaths from being slightly out of balance, and they dont rev to 11,000rpms! Which is why I did this post that no one is posting in to help convince you to get new bearings...
+1 Bearings for sure. Great job Sticks, way to look out for your fellow man! When all this is resolved 'Some Guy' will think he's riding a Gold Wing!
____________
"no time to be void or save up on life
you got to spend it all.."
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gilberjj
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Friend of Fast
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posted May 18, 2009 10:53 PM
haha...... +1 to thinking you're on a Goldwing. John, I revved your bike and it was buzzzzzzy. Just for reference.
From my limited experience with both Sticks and Someguy, here are some important notes that I have made about both of their personalities as they relate to this subject.
Tracy (Sticks) exaggerates and John (Some guy) under plays things. So, when Sticks says that the bike was rattling him so hard that he thought he was going to die, it means that it was very noticeable and not right. John says that it isn't TOO bad but it's been bothering him a little bit, meaning it is really worse then he makes it out to be. John, when this gets sorted out, I hope you don't have a bad taste in your mouth from Kawasaki. You've put up with a lot and you are very calm about it. That definitely speaks to your calm personality. If they rebuild the engine again, you should break it in hard this time.
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Sticks_n_Stones
Needs a job
Posts: 3930
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posted May 19, 2009 05:15 AM
Actually gilberjj, his bike was vibrating as bad as I say. Worst vibration I've even felt on a bike, and I've ridden 'bout everything (ok, I exagerate some I'll admit).
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted May 19, 2009 07:09 AM
if it is a zx-14 it should be as smooth as glass. this motor is as smooth as my old cbx
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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swiftnet
Novice Class
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posted May 19, 2009 08:06 AM
Someguy, I'm in the same business as you. As an analogy, a customer brings you a crashed WIndows pc with damaged dll's. You replace the damaged dll's. System boots but locks up or randomly reboots, do you give it to the customer and say "That's probably the third party software making it unstable" or do you fix it so the thing works? I hope it is the latter!
If you are a kickass computer tech, you know when something isn't right and you correct it. The same should go for a motorcycle tech. A pipe would never make the 14 vibrate like a Harley. If a tech doesn't understand things like that, then I advise you get another tech on it.
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Keeping the rubber side down since 1984
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pissear
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Professional Cockis Slap Peer
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posted May 19, 2009 08:36 AM
Someone turn the rod around on one cylinder? My experience shows that if you hand build it, they seem to run smoother. Then again, the bike can only be assembled one way.
What is the compression across the board? Did the bike sit so long in the dust, something is lodged in the fuel rail and is hurting one cylinder? Mech ever re-sync after assembly? Without riding it, I can throw variables at it all day long.
I drop dill's, I do not have that code the programmer made for that dill loss. Therefore I wipe the hard drives, install from scratch where the dill's are [reset] in program say, being windows/linux/red hat, etc has it pre-programmed. I'd need 'dill's 101' so I know what a dill is. I am not that deep in the analogy of the crashed windows.
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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pissear
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posted May 19, 2009 08:45 AM
That means my signature represents your ((((vibrating)))) bike you clanked in on. Which means to work in the dark. The bike is assembled one way. If you can pull your zipper up or down in the dark one way or both ways, then you can build that engine in the dark and disassemble it too.
KZ means = Kawi Zipper Head Mechanics assembled your bike in the dark is what they did.
Dare is my analogy.
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way too much light in the place is shoot the lights out and make it really dark inn year ear is F YO and the bike you clanked in on.
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MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted May 19, 2009 10:48 AM
Edited By: MJ on 19 May 2009 18:50
quote:
Someguy, I'm in the same business as you. As an analogy, a customer brings you a crashed WIndows pc with damaged dll's. You replace the damaged dll's. System boots but locks up or randomly reboots, do you give it to the customer and say "That's probably the third party software making it unstable" or do you fix it so the thing works? I hope it is the latter!
If you are a kickass computer tech, you know when something isn't right and you correct it. The same should go for a motorcycle tech. A pipe would never make the 14 vibrate like a Harley. If a tech doesn't understand things like that, then I advise you get another tech on it.
Yep Someguys being a little TOO understanding with the dealership tech. You can't forgive his multiple excuses and mistakes that easily. Basically it comes down to a head tech who didn't completely know what he was doing, and didn't have enough experience to have seen some of these things before, so he ends up making lots of excuses. It doesn't matter how 5 star a place looks, or how well they treat you, if they don't have the experience in their shop to do this fairly normal work without screwing it up and need to make lots of excuses, Someguy needs to take his bike somewhere else. All the eye candy and good wishes in the world aren't going to get the bike fixed properly 
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted May 19, 2009 03:57 PM
Edited By: dubious on 20 May 2009 00:00
I have met some very intelligent mechanics, probably should or could have been engineers,
I have also met some that don't deserve to make the $25 per hour...
Much the same i have been to a dealer to order OEM parts, and when he askes what model, he says" zx- thats Suzuki right?
..... where do they get these idiots.... not a clue about their job.
Roll the dice....
as polite as your mechanic has been, he has proven his skill level , and lack of attention already....
Its all in the details....
Anyone can bolt one together with the right tools, but is done RIGHT?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted May 19, 2009 04:02 PM
get the fuckin thing fixed right you deserve it
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2006 Black ZX-14,6 inches over,16/42, flies out,BMC Street Filter,Brock's Street Meg,Brock's Radial Mount Strap,PClll with Race map,Dynojet LCD w/Techmount, ZX-14 fender eliminator,Pilot Power2CTs,Speedohealer,Pazzo Levers,Cox Radiator Guard, Garmin Nuvi 265WT
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted May 19, 2009 04:04 PM
quote:
get the fuckin thing fixed right you deserve it
+1
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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