smokinZX14
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posted May 13, 2009 05:08 PM
 Edited By: smokinZX14 on 14 May 2009 01:27
Drag testing 09 zx14
I have added some goodies to my mean green 09 zx14 ... Wheel base right at 62 inches , air shifter , 87 pump gas , lowered and strapped ... No P/C or tunning ,Flys in place, stock air filter , 003 shinko at 15 psi .. Temps were off the hook for this time of the year .. 98 Deg and sticky ..Track temps was 124 deg !!! .Where did Spring go ?
I got three runs in before the rain hit ...First off the trailer 5.84 @ 121 with a 60 footer of 1.44 .. Number 2 was 5.81 @ 122.34 with a 1.42 60 .. Number 3 was 5.82 @ 122.16 with a 1.41 60 ... I'm sure it had 5.70s in it if i had a few more runs , it takes me a few runs to get warmed up ...My 06 zx14 will pull of mid to high 5.70s in this kind of heat and thats at 64 inches and a P/C and Brocks race map , BMC race filter .. So The bikes are very close in ET and MPH even if the 09 is down on Mods Vs the 06 .. The 09 has 800 miles and two oil changes on it now .. I know from my 06 that it needed about 1000 miles on the bike before it started run real strong.. I hope the 09 is same, time well tell.....Brock said after break in the 08 09 zx14 made 3 to 4 HP more than the 06 07 zx14 .. We will see after a full break in and p/c and good map if that is true ...It looks like it just might be true from tonights numbers ..I should add i had a full tank of gas in the 09 were as i run my 06 with a gallon and a half ..My 06 has a few more things removed compaired to the 09 .. The 09 still has the took kit under the seat , lower cowl and both rear pegs ..
Smokin...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
  
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Bently
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2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted May 13, 2009 05:54 PM
Smokin you still have stock pipes, can't remeber. Great times. I've said it before the 08 Busa's around here are running just as good with slip-ons and no pc as the ones with brocks exhaust and map. Let the bike brake in and run it befor going to pc and map so we really can tell how much it helps.
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smokinZX14
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posted May 13, 2009 05:59 PM
quote:
Smokin you still have stock pipes, can't remeber. Great times. I've said it before the 08 Busa's around here are running just as good with slip-ons and no pc as the ones with brocks exhaust and map. Let the bike brake in and run it befor going to pc and map so we really can tell how much it helps.
Bently i have Brocks Smeg on it ... It will be a while before i get a New P/C with Auto Tune ...( Lack of Green ).... So the bike will get lots of testing before the P/C is added ... 
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Bently
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2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted May 13, 2009 06:04 PM
Cool! just interested in seeing the actual gains you get from the pc with auto tune
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1badzx12r
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posted May 13, 2009 06:15 PM
brock map vs auto-tune ...this should be good
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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NoFault
Novice Class
Posts: 75
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posted May 13, 2009 06:20 PM
Edited By: NoFault on 14 May 2009 02:24
I noticed a difference the closer it got to 1000 miles, it may have also been me getting more used to the bike though.
I am also very interested in the auto tune with the PC, save some green and get it hooked up..... lol
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The ones I care to acknowledge;
2008 ZX14 (as of Feb 07/09)
2002 Roadstar Warrior
1999 Yamaha R1 (You are Missed)
1996 ZX7R
1989 Honda Hurricane (Rem those)
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smokinZX14
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posted May 13, 2009 07:57 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 14 May 2009 03:58
quote:
brock map vs auto-tune ...this should be good
I'm going to start with a brocks map and then let the auto tune do its tricks .. It's Possible that it may go faster because brocks maps are made up north and i race down south ... I know his maps work killer but i'm sure even brock if he was here he could adjust my map and get me a little more speed ... Since Brocks not going to fly down here and tune my bike the Auto tune looks like a good deal .. What i like about the auto tune would not be having to retune for different air temps and tracks .. If it works it should keep me at the target A/F ratio that works the best no matter where i go race or what time of the year it is ..I hope it works that way ....lol
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
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posted May 13, 2009 08:07 PM
quote:
I noticed a difference the closer it got to 1000 miles, it may have also been me getting more used to the bike though.
I am also very interested in the auto tune with the PC, save some green and get it hooked up..... lol
I have had more than one zx14 owner tell me that at 1000 miles the bike really started to run harder ... Had i not felt this for myself with my 06 zx14 i would have said it all in you mind ... My zx14 really did start showing Better ETs and MPH at 1000 miles ... Kind of like a little guy was in my ECU and flipped a switch right at 1000 miles ... Tonys zx14 dyno'd before 1000 miles made around 172 and at 1500 miles he put it back on the same dyno and made 181 ...9 hp gain is something you can really feel... Brock found the same thing on his dyno ... So i think it not just in our heads ... I hope ..lol..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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ZX14Mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
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posted May 13, 2009 10:14 PM
Both my ZX 14 and ZX 12 REALLy came alive at 1000 miles about 10 horsepower would be my guess as well.
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14nooby
Zone Head
Posts: 987
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posted May 14, 2009 04:12 AM
See you Sunday. I am shooting for my first 8 second pass. See you then. My bike only has 650 miles on it and it mph like crazy. I can't wait until 1000 miles.
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SteddyTeddy
Pro
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posted May 14, 2009 06:39 AM
We sure got dumped on last night! Got home and barely a sprinkle.
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kawasakijockey
Pro
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posted May 14, 2009 07:50 AM
Smokin, it seems like you wont have any reason to keep the 06 around now, huh?
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Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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smokinZX14
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posted May 14, 2009 08:19 AM
quote:
Smokin, it seems like you wont have any reason to keep the 06 around now, huh?
Looks that way ...It has served me well in the last 3 years..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
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posted May 14, 2009 09:54 AM
quote:
quote:
What i like about the auto tune would not be having to retune for different air temps and tracks .. If it works it should keep me at the target A/F ratio that works the best no matter where i go race or what time of the year it is ..I hope it works that way ....lol
you gonna have to streetride it cause it takes the auto-tune longer than 5.80's ot 8.90's to tune the bike.. i think it takes like 30 seconds to target ur A/F to your set A/F thru the rpm range ..
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dubious
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posted May 14, 2009 11:40 AM
Not if your drag racing...
Basically 100 % tps through the few thousand rpm he runs in the 1/4 and that area will be datalogged.
Tuning the entire rpm range in every throttle position for street riding takes about 20 minutes I have found.
Find an empty road, hold each mappable throttle position through the rpm range it can pull.
Multiply that by six for each gear if you wan to tune for the RAM air effectively.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dubious
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posted May 14, 2009 12:14 PM
Edited By: dubious on 14 May 2009 20:15
Thats what I found with the bazzaz on the zx10....
Road needs to VERY EMPTY BTW ! LOL
At first I was going so slow, i would have been holding up traffic,10% TPS etc then wound up going pretty fast ... LOL
100% tps ...LOL
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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1badzx12r
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posted May 14, 2009 01:44 PM
WHICH IS IT A PC5 DUB OR A BAZZAZ ... cause a pc5 doesn't just datalog it auto-tunes the map ...not like the bazzaz which just gives you a subjusted map ... from what i've heard from people that are running the pc5 it takes around 30 seconds to aminute of riding for it to change values on map completely . . its not like a dyno tuning session of running each value to make a map ..
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dubious
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posted May 14, 2009 02:04 PM
Edited By: dubious on 14 May 2009 22:44
THAT WAS WITH A BAZZAZ,
I DON'T CARE WHAT UNIT YOU RUN, HOW CAN YOU DATA LOG EVERY THROTTLE POSITION AT EVERY RPM WITH OUT RUNNING THROUGH IT?
I HAVE NOT WORKED WITH THE PC5, SO I CAN NOT VERIFY WHAT THEY ARE DOING, BUT THE CONCEPT IS IDENTICAL, WITH EXCEPTION TO HOW THE MAP IS UPDATED.
LIKE I SAID , DRAG MAP IS ALOT DIFFERENT THAN A STREET MAP.
2 RUNS DOWN THE TRACK SHOULD BE MORE THAN SUFFICIENT TO UPDATE FOR THE RACES THAT DAY,
IF YOU ARE TUNING FOR THE STREET AT A DIFFERENT ELEVATION OR SEASONAL WEATHER YOU MUST RUN ALL TPS POSITIONS AND ALL RPM TO HIT THEM ALL.
IF YOU WANT TO TUNE FOR THE RAM AIR CORRECTION AS WELL THEN YOU NEED TO DO IT FOR EACH GEAR ADDITIONALLY.
10 TPS CELLS X 40 RPM CELLS X 6 GEARS= 2400 CELLS.
GOOD LUCK MAINTAINING AND HITTING THE EXACT TPS FOR EACH RANGE THE FIRST TIME. ITS IMPOSSIBLE.
SO IN ESSENCE MULTIPLY YOUR 2400 CELLS TIMES 3 ATTEMPTS TO HIT EVERY CELL.
ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO TUNE 2400 CELLS 3 TIMES FOR THE STREET IN 30 SECONDS.
IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THE TRACK MAP= APPROX 80 CELLS
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dubious
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posted May 14, 2009 02:08 PM
As for besting Brocks map, i think it might be very difficult to do, as you would need an data logging with a n online accelerometer to determine what AFR is making the best power for each rpm range, dependant on load and ram air down the track.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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dubious
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posted May 14, 2009 02:21 PM
1BAD ,
I see the points we are speaking of are being misread/ understood.
Maybe thats an upside to the Bazzaz. Although it needs to be updated manualy, it might not need the sustained period in that cell, compared to doing it auto tune?
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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1badzx12r
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posted May 14, 2009 06:06 PM
quote:
THAT WAS WITH A BAZZAZ,
we are talking pc5 here not old news bazzaz .. you do know the pc5 is or can be maybe a closed loop system .. it may be to slow to react on turbo or NOS bikes ..but it reads A/F and T/P INSTANT WITH A WIDEBAND SENSOR and T/P wire patch into PC5 .. you don't have to go thru each value to make a fucking map . but from my understanding it changes the fuel values slowly to your set A/F ... WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS it won't change the numbers from a -10 to a + 10 instantly it works itself up to it by going thru several values to reach its end results ...
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1badzx12r
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posted May 14, 2009 06:13 PM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 15 May 2009 02:22
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/default.aspx
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/pcvjapanese.htm
and i talk to a guy that had a pc5 with auto-tune on his bike 2007 gsxr running at the texas mile .. which was working great 191 mph and only pc5 and pipe ... before it tuned the bike he told me he was running high 170's mph to low 180's mph
and i'll be talking to another on a zx14 this weekend at the track ..whom had tried auto-tuning on an 1/8 mile track and it failed
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dubious
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posted May 14, 2009 08:27 PM
Edited By: dubious on 15 May 2009 04:29
YOU are WRONG.
You are not listening, and obviuosly you have not tuned with a Bazzaz.
If you are correct in your statements about the PC5 and the Auto tune, it
sounds like your Auto tune is slower than a Bazzaz , and a laptop.
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Sorry, for jacking the thread Lee.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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smokinZX14
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posted May 14, 2009 08:35 PM
quote:
YOU are WRONG.
You are not listening, and obviuosly you have not tuned with a Bazzaz.
If you are correct in your statements about the PC5 and the Auto tune, it
sounds like your Auto tune is slower than a Bazzaz , and a laptop.
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Sorry, for jacking the thread Lee.
dubious no problems , high Jack all you want... I need info on both the PC and Bazza units ..Looks like the Bazza unit may be a better deal ..?
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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dubious
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posted May 14, 2009 09:19 PM
I have not used a PC5, I am only going off the hearsay 1Bad has produced.
I have tuned with the bazzaz.
I do know that once you run the bazzaz through the cells you run in the 1/4 or 1/8th a few times... like 2 runs, it suggests the necessary changes to acheive the setpoint or desired AFR.
All you have to do then is plug in the laptop, and with 1 click you can update every cell you rode through and data logged, or you can make changes to specific cells individually.
+1 for Bazzaz
The PC5 will allow you to make desired setpoints for each individual cell, wheras the Bazzaz setpoint is a blanket setpoint for all cells.
+1 for autotune, but marginal.
It sounds like you would have to make 5-6 runs to get the auto tune to update to the desired AFR, wheras the Bazzaz it can be changed manually in 2 runs, maybe 1.
Both units allow you to correct for ram air, as they allow a seperate map for each gear.
Again, from what I have heard it sounds like the Bazzaz will give suggested changes alot quicker than waiting for the PC5 auto tune to update the map.
None is better than the other IMO in those respects, one is just quicker than the other.
Whatever you do, make sure the exhaust and sensor is up to temp on either of them before running the track to collect data, otherwise your updates will be inacurrate
Again, assumed from 1Bad statements:
Additionally if you take a bike with auto tune from substantially different climates, elevations or temeperatures, or fuel sources, it will take even longer to update
I was tuning the zx10 with the bazzaz at 75 f in the afternoon one day, and at 50f the next morning. It was suggesting up to 15% more fuel in some cells after one rip through the gears.
I updated the map and made another run down my "tuning back road" and all cells were within 5% so, it does indeed allow quick updates to your map if you are willing to hook up a laptop.
If you street ride, at street paces, rpm and TPS, you will have to do it alot to get the auto tune to change, wheras Bazzaz and 1-2 rips through the same cell will give you suggestions to update as soon as you get the laptop hooked up.
This is important to consider if track use is limited and you like your license!
Also important if you like your clutch ! LOL
Basically it sounds the auto tune will force you to ride the bike much more, and ride the piss out of your bike much more to get the same results at 100% TPS and near the rev limiter for racing applications.
Lee, if you want to speak on the phone, I could clarify what i have learned, and experienced, as well as conversations I have had with some industry leaders about both units.
They have worked with both..
Bad is absolutely being ignorant saying the bazzaz is old though....
He just doesn't know any better, and is making uneducated statements
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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