Shane661
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posted February 14, 2009 10:59 AM
Muzzy M14 Owner - Why Change?
I've been giving some thought to my exhaust. As some of you know, I am running the Muzzy M14 system. I am pretty happy with the system, but with all of the talk of Brock products lately I started pondering a change.
For me to change, the pipe would have to make equal or better power, have equal or better ground clearance, and be less weight. I am not sure that any pipe will meet these requirements.
Today I weighed some exhaust system components. I'm not sure that I will find a tremendously lighter exhaust than the Muzzy M14. Maybe TiForce?
Header 7 lbs. 8 oz.
Mid Pipe 1 lb. 8 oz.
Stainless Muffler 5lb. 2 oz.
Area P Muffler 3 lb. 13.4 oz.
With Area P Carbon Muffler, this whole system weighs about 13 lbs.
As for performance, I am turning 148 mph in the 1/4, 120 in the 1/8th and have run right near 191 mph in the mile. This is without properly mapping the bike, and at 230 lbs. suited. So, I am confident the exhaust is making decent power. I have an Innovate logger, and will be tuning the bike at the track. Having a downloadable map is not critical to me.
The ground clearance is excellent, with no header bends protruding downward:
Anyway, how about some feedback and hopefully technical data on some of your exhausts?
Like I say, I don't think there is a reason to change. But I'm all ears.
Shane
  
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dubious
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posted February 14, 2009 11:03 AM
for the few HP difference, turn up the NOS!
JMO anyway....
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SteveWFL
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posted February 14, 2009 11:10 AM
 Edited By: SteveWFL on 14 Feb 2009 19:11
Wow Shane that Mussy full system with Area P can is NICE!
I wouldn't change full systems just for the sake of change, but if/when I purchase another Zx14 or a 'busa, Brock's will be my preference by far. I'll order the full system a few minutes after I ink the sales paperwork.
I've owned a few Muzzy full systems and have been pleased (especially on the ZX-9R), but the better customer care and service I got from Brock's (compared to Muzzy) has been so profound I can't go back.
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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Shane661
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posted February 14, 2009 11:11 AM
quote:
for the few HP difference, turn up the NOS!
JMO anyway....
I'm not sure that there is a pipe that makes more hp than the M14 (Sidewinders excluded). It does not have the restricted collector of the original Muzzy pipe, and it has the tapered head pipes as well:
I'm not trying to push M14 sales, but I'm also trying to cut through some of the hype surrounding exhausts.
Shane
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Shane661
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posted February 14, 2009 11:16 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 14 Feb 2009 19:17
quote:
Wow Shane that Mussy full system with Area P can is NICE!
I wouldn't change full systems just for the sake of change, but if/when I purchase another Zx14 or a 'busa, Brock's will be my preference by far. I'll order the full system a few minutes after I ink the sales paperwork.
I've owned a few Muzzy full systems and have been pleased (especially on the ZX-9R), but the better customer care and service I got from Brock's (compared to Muzzy) has been so profound I can't go back.
Thanks, Steve, Area P is top notch! Kerry custom made the can to fit the Muzzy. I was able to specify length, can material, baffle size, end cap (and even a custom mod to the end cap). It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I am very happy with the results:
They can make a can to fit most exhausts out there, I'm sure.
Shane
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masszx14
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posted February 14, 2009 11:30 AM
The M14 is praised by many for being a good power making exhaust.
On the flip side the Alien Head weighs in at less than 9 lbs.
and will give the M14 numbers any time and then some!
I'd only swap full systems at this point if there is a killer deal in the Classifieds.
Blowing $1K on an exhaust when you already have a top notch one is pointles IMO.
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Shane661
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posted February 14, 2009 11:36 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 14 Feb 2009 19:37
quote:
On the flip side the Alien Head weighs in at less than 9 lbs.
I don't see how that is possible....unless the muffler is less than 3 lbs, which seems unlikely. Has anyone actually weighed one of these systems?
If I were to make a swap I'd likely sell mine and buy used.
Shane
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masszx14
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posted February 14, 2009 11:42 AM
Brock wouldn't state it on his website if it wasn't the case!
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Shane661
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posted February 14, 2009 11:46 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 14 Feb 2009 19:49
quote:
Brock wouldn't state it on his website if it wasn't the case!
Ok, I am going to open a can of worms here. On Brocks site the standard Streetsmart is advertised as follows:
"The front section (from the engine to the Muffler) is constructed of an aerospace quality ultra-light stainless steel. The standard StreetSmart package comes with a 20 inch long Titanium Oval Race Muffler. The total system weight is just over 8lbs."
Now, I hate to dispute this...but I don't think that a full Streetsmart system with Ti Muffler weighs "just over 8 lbs.". I think even Brock might have clarified this somewhere?
I'd love to be proven wrong on this. I'd love to have an 8 lb. full system.
Shane
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madboost
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posted February 14, 2009 12:02 PM
Edited By: madboost on 14 Feb 2009 20:04
my tiforce weights maybe 8lbs max if not less, its full Ti of course...bought it for 600 used off psychobike muffler weights 1/2 of pound if that
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08 zx14-with a few things.
94z28 383,TH400,YSI,9",DFI and much more
9.44@144 w 1.5060ft
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Shane661
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posted February 14, 2009 12:07 PM
quote:
my tiforce weights maybe 8lbs max if not less, its full Ti of course...bought it for 600 used off psychobike muffler weights 1/2 of pound if that
Have you actually weighed it? I've never seen a muffler that weighs .5 lb....and I've seen a few, Ti included!
It's hard to judge weight without a scale. It can be deceiving, trust me.
Shane
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madboost
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posted February 14, 2009 12:12 PM
i'll weight a muffler when i'll get a free minute, but i can gurantee you the system is no more then 8lbs, my header/mid pipe feels 5 times lighter then my factory header only which is made out of the same exact metal that your muzzy is made out of "stainless steel"
____________
08 zx14-with a few things.
94z28 383,TH400,YSI,9",DFI and much more
9.44@144 w 1.5060ft
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smokinZX14
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posted February 14, 2009 12:16 PM
Brocks alien head is right at 9 pounds ... Muzzy pipes are heavy thick wall tubing ...( extra weight )
As far as power do you know anyone that is going faster with muzzy pipe Vs Brocks ? I can tell you i have not seen a one going faster ..I'm not talking AMA Prostar built to the hilt motors here , i'm talking stock motor and Avg joes ...Seen any m14s at Maxton going 200 like Brocks zx14 ?
Ground clearance .. Well i had a Muzzy pipe on my bike before brocks pipe , ask ZXBob about the dented Muzzy pipe i sold him... I have yet to dent my brocks pipe ...
I have no clue if the m14 makes the power of the Brocks pipe, it looks like it could or should ...But i can tell you Brocks maps are better ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Shane661
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posted February 14, 2009 12:16 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 14 Feb 2009 20:17
Does anyone have a photo of the ground clearance with the Brock header (smiliar to my pic above)? I've heard that one of the header pipes can drag when the bike is slammed.
I'm getting a little more interested in the Brocks...depending on weight and ground clearance.
Shane
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smokinZX14
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posted February 14, 2009 12:27 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 14 Feb 2009 20:30
quote:
Does anyone have a photo of the ground clearance with the Brock header (smiliar to my pic above)? I've heard that one of the header pipes can drag when the bike is slammed.
I'm getting a little more interested in the Brocks...depending on weight and ground clearance.
Shane
Shane i have slammed my 14 down to many times to count from 12:00 oclock and NEVER hit the pipe ...Drain plug YES pipe NO ...Hit a speed bump and hit the drain plug but not the pipe ..3 years with the same pipe and no dents ..Trust me if anyone rides their bike harder the me let me know ..Tonys TI Force hit the ground everytime we rode ..Made some pretty sparks too ....
Look i don't work for Brocks or Muzzys and i pick Brocks because of this > 8.77 @154 ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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smokinZX14
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posted February 14, 2009 12:28 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 14 Feb 2009 20:30
Sorry double post ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Shane661
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posted February 14, 2009 12:35 PM
quote:
Brocks alien head is right at 9 pounds ... Muzzy pipes are heavy thick wall tubing ...( extra weight )
As far as power do you know anyone that is going faster with muzzy pipe Vs Brocks ? I can tell you i have not seen a one going faster ..I'm not talking AMA Prostar built to the hilt motors here , i'm talking stock motor and Avg joes ...Seen any m14s at Maxton going 200 like Brocks zx14 ?
Ground clearance .. Well i had a Muzzy pipe on my bike before brocks pipe , ask ZXBob about the dented Muzzy pipe i sold him... I have yet to dent my brocks pipe ...
I have no clue if the m14 makes the power of the Brocks pipe, it looks like it could or should ...But i can tell you Brocks maps are better ..
Realistically Lee, nobody is going 200 stock motor at Maxton. I have seen Zack Millholland run 198+ on the old style Muzzy pipe...without as much prep as Brock's bike had. Even with the Streetsmart Gen 3, it was equal in top speed.
You can see by my pics that you are not going to get better ground clearance than this Muzzy has. Remember, it is not the 1st gen pipe like you had.
At any rate, I'm not questioning how the Brock runs. It's obviously powerful.
I'm focused on the weight now, and I'd still like a pic of the ground clearance. I'm pretty heavy compared to you...and my bike is going to be low, with a relocated drain bolt.
Shane
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masszx14
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posted February 14, 2009 12:36 PM
This pic was taken after the install.
Stock height but can't see what can possibly hit when lowered.
BTW that stain on the ground was from an oil change on my Roadstar Warrior!
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Shane661
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posted February 14, 2009 12:43 PM
Thanks for the pic. It is hard to judge without seeing the side view. From what Lee says, it is probably not a big issue. But every picture I see of a bike with Brock's on it, I see the header bend sticking down below the chin fairing. So that was my concern.
Shane
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smokinZX14
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posted February 14, 2009 12:45 PM
Edited By: smokinZX14 on 14 Feb 2009 20:47
quote:
quote:
Brocks alien head is right at 9 pounds ... Muzzy pipes are heavy thick wall tubing ...( extra weight )
As far as power do you know anyone that is going faster with muzzy pipe Vs Brocks ? I can tell you i have not seen a one going faster ..I'm not talking AMA Prostar built to the hilt motors here , i'm talking stock motor and Avg joes ...Seen any m14s at Maxton going 200 like Brocks zx14 ?
Ground clearance .. Well i had a Muzzy pipe on my bike before brocks pipe , ask ZXBob about the dented Muzzy pipe i sold him... I have yet to dent my brocks pipe ...
I have no clue if the m14 makes the power of the Brocks pipe, it looks like it could or should ...But i can tell you Brocks maps are better ..
Realistically Lee, nobody is going 200 stock motor at Maxton. I have seen Zack Millholland run 198+ on the old style Muzzy pipe...without as much prep as Brock's bike had. Even with the Streetsmart Gen 3, it was equal in top speed.
You can see by my pics that you are not going to get better ground clearance than this Muzzy has. Remember, it is not the 1st gen pipe like you had.
At any rate, I'm not questioning how the Brock runs. It's obviously powerful.
I'm focused on the weight now, and I'd still like a pic of the ground clearance. I'm pretty heavy compared to you...and my bike is going to be low, with a relocated drain bolt.
Shane
I know this may be high jacking but you are telling me brocks 06 zx14 was NOT a stock motor like he told us all it was ..?? It did go 200 @ Maxton with chad riding not Brock ..or was it all lies?
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Hawkman
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posted February 14, 2009 12:47 PM
Just like Smokin said, Brock's headers are thinner steel and very light. I remember some dipshit on the other ZX14 site, Gregg maybe, talking about how pretty Tsukigi welds were. They have the luxury of nice welds due to the heavier metal that's used and different welding method. I'll take the light weight, dragstrip proven performance/numbers and "ugly" welds, thank you. Not to mention the 6 different maps and personal service Brock provides me. He's the man. Words on an internet screen don't do him justice. When you consistently get an email back the same night you send him a question...then you'll know what I mean.
Here's a pic of mine just so you can see clearance.
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Shane661
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posted February 14, 2009 12:49 PM
Lee, like I said, nobody is going 200 stock motor. One person did it. Brock's bike with Chad on it. You can't compare that to what the "average Joes" are running with their bikes.
It would be like Rob Muzzy showing up with Doug Meyer and a ZX-14. Of course it is going to go fast.
I am not claiming that Brock's bike was not stock motor.
Shane
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Hawkman
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posted February 14, 2009 12:50 PM
As you can see in the above pic...the oil drain tab hangs lower than the header.
PS...I'm 240lbs naked. 
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Shane661
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posted February 14, 2009 12:53 PM
quote:
Just like Smokin said, Brock's headers are thinner steel and very light. I remember some dipshit on the other ZX14 site, Gregg maybe, talking about how pretty Tsukigi welds were. They have the luxury of nice welds due to the heavier metal that's used and different welding method. I'll take the light weight, dragstrip proven performance/numbers and "ugly" welds, thank you. Not to mention the 6 different maps and personal service Brock provides me. He's the man. Words on an internet screen don't do him justice. When you consistently get an email back the same night you send him a question...then you'll know what I mean.
Thanks very much for the photo! That is not bad at all. 
Again, I am not questioning Brock's service, etc. I am just looking hard at justifying a change. Like I said, if I can get equal or better clearance and power, and also lose a decent amount of weight, I am likely to switch up.
Shane
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Hawkman
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posted February 14, 2009 12:58 PM
Glad to help.
Here's one more from an angle just a little closer to the ground.
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