madboost
Expert Class
Posts: 187
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posted October 24, 2008 06:06 PM
Clutch Stack Height?
Well put new clutches in the bike this week and hit the track today to try it out with some negative results. I have 2600miles on the bike and about 60 stock wheelbase passes plus about 20-30 extended passes. Clutches were pretty toast so i ordered a clutch pack from Shnitz, they called me up and told me they only had fibers in stock so i went ahead and got the stock fibers and brocks clutch springs. Called up cycle concepts and told them i needed stock steels, he told me his steels were stock thickness but didnt have oil holes so they actually last longer. So i went ahead and got those, installed them smaller clutch first, then steel, then other size clutches/steels and bigger clutch at the end. First pass lever set on 3 i noticed the bike wanted to creep as soon as i started to release the clutch lever so i backed it down to 2 it didnt creep as much but still more then it did with stock clutch. As i staged i let the clutch go same as i usually do and gave it gas about half way on th clutch lever and 60% throttle to get it moving the slip the rest of the way out. Well the bike didnt move, i let the clutch move, and the clutch just engaged. IT has no slip point now its either on or off, but almost at the end of the lever travel. Needles to say after 2 horrible passes i loaded the bike back in the truck and left. I'm going to pull much clutches/steels out tomorow and mesure whats the stock height soposed to be? I was told it was to high, so it was impossible to slip and when the clutch finally engaged it would instantly blow the tire off.
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08 zx14-with a few things.
94z28 383,TH400,YSI,9",DFI and much more
9.44@144 w 1.5060ft
  
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted October 24, 2008 06:20 PM
Your .6-.10 to thck with stack height if its creeping. Did you mess with the slave at all or break the line loose? If not the steels you have are probably adding up a little thicker then the stockers were. The 14's are critical on stack, because the hyd,slave has not much forgiveness built in. Mic both sets of steels and you will find your problem is my guess....
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bill eason
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madboost
Expert Class
Posts: 187
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posted October 24, 2008 06:27 PM
cool deal will do does wrong stack height explain the crazy engagment problem, where it has no slip, i was also looking at shanes thread and when i installed my clutches i didnt line up the clutches with marks in the basket didnt know there were any. I just put them in, they seem like they only wanted to fit one way. Also i would have to check this though by looking at Shanes pics it looks like alot of spring and spring bolt is showing, mine are almost flush???? man i'm confused i'll try to figure it out tomorow.
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08 zx14-with a few things.
94z28 383,TH400,YSI,9",DFI and much more
9.44@144 w 1.5060ft
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted October 24, 2008 06:40 PM
Yeh man the stack is key'' It will grab,and creep also. Make sure you have the outer pressure plate lined up also. It has to go against the last fiber,and not just against the inner basket. There's only one wright way it goes in. You will feel it if you spin it and keep turning it to differant spring holes it will drop down another 1/4'' flat against fiber. LMK...
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bill eason
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madboost
Expert Class
Posts: 187
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posted October 24, 2008 06:43 PM
thats probably my problem thanks bill!
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08 zx14-with a few things.
94z28 383,TH400,YSI,9",DFI and much more
9.44@144 w 1.5060ft
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted October 24, 2008 06:47 PM
No problem MB'' Keep us informed so we know what to look for later if someone else runs into this problem....
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bill eason
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted October 24, 2008 11:43 PM
 Edited By: CrotchRocket on 25 Oct 2008 07:44
Did you forget a washer???
If its flush then you may have forgot to put something in there...
Did you soak the frictions in oil???
It it creeps as soon as you engage in gear then that because of the extra oil on the frictions and needs 4 good passes for it to fly off...Plus, the HD springs will definately cause creeping...
Also, if you have a warped steel with the new frictions it will engage exactly the way you describe...Thats why its best to buy new frictions and steels !!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted October 25, 2008 05:17 AM
I have all HD springs in mine and it don't creep at all!
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FlatoutBu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted October 25, 2008 10:36 AM
After having about a dozen clutches and pulling it in and out a million times i'll tell ya a few things i found out. Factory stack hight calls for no more than 2.15 tall. I like mine on the limit, it helps the clutch lever to release right off the bars. I have been using different combo's of fibers and steels the last few years. I use busa fibers and the thicker steels kaw has. They have 3 different listings for steels, i don't have the part numbers sitting around me or i would give them too ya.
A few weeks ago a friend of mine, who is a machinest, said he could resurface some old steels i had. I figured what the hell and gave him a stack. I threw them in and took it to the track. Now after making hundereds of pass's on my bike i never had much trouble with creep or a "in or out" clutch, but with the resurfed steels i did. I took the clutch apart and all the steels and fibers were stuck together...almost like glue. I'm thinking it was because he machined the dimples off the steels and now it almost acts like a suction with the steels and fibers together. I bought all new OE steels and havent had a problem since.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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madboost
Expert Class
Posts: 187
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posted October 25, 2008 03:58 PM
well took the clutches apart today, first fiber on the outside didnt look so good, steel was pretty dark, second fiber a little less wear then the first and the rest steels/fiber brand new still. So after checking the new steels with old steels they are the same exact height, i put everything back in and and this time saw the pressure plate kinda sink in after i tightened 2 or 3 clutch bolts and i didnt see that at the time i installed them the first time. I tried it out today unfortenatly only while sittin in the gargage(rain), not much test but feels completly diffrent in a better way. Heading back out to the track tomorow and see what happens. Now i can get bike in any gear with the lever on setting 5 pulled against the handle and the bike dosent creep at all.
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08 zx14-with a few things.
94z28 383,TH400,YSI,9",DFI and much more
9.44@144 w 1.5060ft
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted October 25, 2008 05:40 PM
You just didnt have the pp lined up wright,she should be fine now. Good luck tomorrow, where are you racing. Wish we could be there...... Bill
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bill eason
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madboost
Expert Class
Posts: 187
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posted October 25, 2008 05:52 PM
bill thanks i'll be at M/D
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08 zx14-with a few things.
94z28 383,TH400,YSI,9",DFI and much more
9.44@144 w 1.5060ft
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted October 25, 2008 06:28 PM
If the air stays good and cools a little you should see that 8 your hunting for ! Glad to here you have the clutch figured out, I'd like to see that 8,but no pressure LOL...... Bill
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bill eason
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madboost
Expert Class
Posts: 187
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posted October 26, 2008 05:06 PM
another 9.09 w 1.48 60, still gettting used to these new clutch springs, oh well maybe next weekend.
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08 zx14-with a few things.
94z28 383,TH400,YSI,9",DFI and much more
9.44@144 w 1.5060ft
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billeason
Zone Head
Posts: 711
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posted October 26, 2008 05:52 PM
Man thats good for a 1.48 60 ft. Bring that 60 down to 138-140 and your there, 8's for sure. Glad to see your back up and running. I m going to capitol sat, and cecil sunday, or atleast thats the plan. lol....
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bill eason
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted January 12, 2011 12:42 PM
Edited By: gilberjj on 12 Jan 2011 20:42
Just measured my clutch stack height for the first time. 12k miles, 150ish 1/4 mile passes, and it measured at 2.053"
Am I within spec?
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RICH CRAFT 1
Zone Head
Posts: 681
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posted January 12, 2011 02:02 PM
The factory stack height says 2.11 to 2.15. That is down a hundred thousands from the hi side. If the clutch look good and the steels look okay no bad humps on them. You could just sham the Springs and keep going. It's really all about the spring pressure as far as slipping.
Ken
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Red 06 ZX14 RR
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted January 12, 2011 02:09 PM
quote:
The factory stack height says 2.11 to 2.15. That is down a hundred thousands from the hi side. If the clutch look good and the steels look okay no bad humps on them. You could just sham the Springs and keep going. It's really all about the spring pressure as far as slipping.
Ken
I think you meant to say shim the springs... but what exactly does that mean? The clutch does just fine right now as far as I can tell. I've been running brocks springs, and I just added the real street spacers as well.
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kawasakijockey
Pro
Posts: 1876
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posted January 12, 2011 03:37 PM
As long as the inner most fiber is over .138 inch and all the other fibers are over .106 inch, your still in spec. for regular street riding. A stack height under 2.070 is where I notice problems when drag racing.
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Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3196
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posted January 12, 2011 05:35 PM
quote:
As long as the inner most fiber is over .138 inch and all the other fibers are over .106 inch, your still in spec. for regular street riding. A stack height under 2.070 is where I notice problems when drag racing.
Great, that's what I needed to know. I read the manual again today, and I have to take apart the clutch again because I installed the last fiber inline with all the others (I need to put on the offset teeth. Are there any other things that I need to know when reinstalling the clutch?
THANKS!
Jorgen
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kawpower
Zone Head
Mr kawasaki 2 you!
Posts: 887
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posted January 13, 2011 05:14 AM
2.11-2.15 stack h, and the stock 14 steels do not have dimps on them they are smooth!
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Cecil County 2010 Motorcycle ET Champ. 9 Wins- 4 RUs .06zx14 turboed for 2012 .
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RICH CRAFT 1
Zone Head
Posts: 681
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posted January 13, 2011 08:48 AM
gilberjj, I use a computer software that allows me to talk on the Internet, when it comes to typing I am all thumbs. the problem is when I say race it says rice so I have to go back and edit what I say and sometimes that doesn't happen sorry for the misspell. Kawpower, your right when the steels come from the factory they are smooth but after a lot of drag race they get hot spots on them which bubble up into little humps these humps will tear the fibers off. I hope this clears up what I was trying to say.
Ken
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Red 06 ZX14 RR
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kawpower
Zone Head
Mr kawasaki 2 you!
Posts: 887
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posted January 13, 2011 03:44 PM
I understand what u were saying RC1 ,I was just clearing up the fact because some of these guys seem to think they have dipples like the 12r steels and they do not.
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Cecil County 2010 Motorcycle ET Champ. 9 Wins- 4 RUs .06zx14 turboed for 2012 .
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dakota9498
Pro
Posts: 1181
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posted January 15, 2011 08:42 PM
I just pulled my clutch, and the stack height is 2.09, so I will probably go ahead and replace it while I have everything apart for the winter.
But for future reference, how much color is ok, or normal on the steels? Or are they ok as long as they are not warped?
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2008 ZX14
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. ~Mark Twain
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kawpower
Zone Head
Mr kawasaki 2 you!
Posts: 887
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posted January 16, 2011 07:06 AM
It would be best and cost effective to just replace the pak and springs with new ones,, and if u dont know how to get it right just order a drag pak the stack comes already to spects, u just soak the fibers and install, no guessing involved and dont forget some ebc hd springs and ur set, all under 180.00 shipped. my2ct.
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Cecil County 2010 Motorcycle ET Champ. 9 Wins- 4 RUs .06zx14 turboed for 2012 .
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