duncan
Expert Class
Posts: 341
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posted June 02, 2008 03:10 PM
Turbo help!!!!!!!!!
A friend of mine recently had a stage 1 mr turbo system installed and he just called me and said his bike is making a "ticking" sound and is blowing oil when boost positive on his leg. He told me he got into the revlimiter real bad with a missed shift and this is when his problems started. Sounds like a head gasket blown???? What do you gearheads think? Smokin, zx bob, dubious, anyone?????
  
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smokinzx14
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posted June 02, 2008 03:28 PM
Could be ..... I would take a look crank case breather see if it's full of oil first . It could be just puming out the breather under boost..If it's coming from the breather he could have killed a piston or rings..Then pull the body work and have a look around .... Last but not least ran a compression check ..
We had a problem like that with Jesses turbo bike...ON boost on the dyno it pumped oil out the breather...The fix was to drop the pan and shorten the breather tube in the pan .. I hope it's something that simple but he may have hurt the motor banging it off the limiter ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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ninja14
Pro
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posted June 02, 2008 05:15 PM
I had oil blow from my breather, but....ticking...not good.
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2006 Turbo ZX-14.
2005 V-max 20th Anniv.
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1badzx12r
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posted June 02, 2008 05:43 PM
i know this sound and this sounds badddddddddddddddd ....do not run it any more ...or cylinder damage may occur if it hasn't already ... if it collaped the rings bad you get blow back oil from everything valve cover , oil breather, it starts of sounding like a valve tapping at idle... 4 miles later my #4 piston had rings pushed down and torn cylinder walls and i didn't even get on it....
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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davej
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posted June 02, 2008 06:13 PM
This is scary, have been into the rev limiter several times but not on a missed shift. Did he down shift by accident and lose a valve keeper? Good to know about the shortened breather tube also. Will be watching this thread. Over boost would act like a rev limiter kicking in and could lose a keeper that way.
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Triumph guy
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duncan
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posted June 02, 2008 06:30 PM
UPDATE...buddy called and said he pulled the plugs and #'s 1 2 3 looked good{light brown} but #4 was covered in oil. I forgot to ask him if he saw any oil around the valve cover or oil breather and he's pretty stressed and tired right now so I don't want to call him anymore. What do you all think about all the oil in #4. Sounds a little like "1badzx12r" story above. I feel really bad for my friend he's put alot of hard earned $ in this 08 14. Bike only has 1100 miles on it.
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smokinzx14
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posted June 02, 2008 06:36 PM
 Edited By: smokinzx14 on 2 Jun 2008 19:38
quote:
UPDATE...buddy called and said he pulled the plugs and #'s 1 2 3 looked good{light brown} but #4 was covered in oil. I forgot to ask him if he saw any oil around the valve cover or oil breather and he's pretty stressed and tired right now so I don't want to call him anymore. What do you all think about all the oil in #4. Sounds a little like "1badzx12r" story above. I feel really bad for my friend he's put alot of hard earned $ in this 08 14. Bike only has 1100 miles on it.
Sounds like he took out a piston and rings on number 4 ... I'm betting money it was the mapping and not banging the limiter .. Jesse turbo was mapped real rich (real safe a/f ratio ) and it was bounced off the limiter many times ..We have seen boost as high as 15 psi on his stock motor and not one problem ....My money is on it being to lean ....
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
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posted June 02, 2008 06:37 PM
he's gonna need JE turbo pistons ...i just hope he didn't need to send his block to Millenium for re plating stock bore ..Takes about a month ...from the sound of what he found i'd bet he folded the rings down on # 4 but not as bad as i did ...look for aluminium particles in oil cuz piston starts to melt at edges of valve grooves on top of pistons downward
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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ninja14
Pro
Posts: 1136
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posted June 02, 2008 06:40 PM
Yep...sounds dead..........
Time to go low-comp 
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2006 Turbo ZX-14.
2005 V-max 20th Anniv.
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duncan
Expert Class
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posted June 02, 2008 06:51 PM
HUMMMM..... not what I wanted to hear Smokin and 1badzx12r but you may be right. Lees performance had a hell of a time getting this bike mapped right. They kept saying they recieved bad power commanders from the factory. But I know or would like to think Dave Owen and Lee Sheirts would not let the bike leave their place poorly mapped. I remember my friend said AFR was between 11.0- 11.8 across the board. Maybe the powercommander screwed up... or the shop... time will tell. Thanks for your insight I'll keep you posted.
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smokinzx14
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posted June 02, 2008 06:59 PM
quote:
HUMMMM..... not what I wanted to hear Smokin and 1badzx12r but you may be right. Lees performance had a hell of a time getting this bike mapped right. They kept saying they recieved bad power commanders from the factory. But I know or would like to think Dave Owen and Lee Sheirts would not let the bike leave their place poorly mapped. I remember my friend said AFR was between 11.0- 11.8 across the board. Maybe the powercommander screwed up... or the shop... time will tell. Thanks for your insight I'll keep you posted.
If anyone should know how to map a turbo bike it would be dave or lees ....Something went very wrong .....Let us know what you find out ...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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1badzx12r
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posted June 02, 2008 07:05 PM
quote:
quote:
HUMMMM..... not what I wanted to hear Smokin and 1badzx12r but you may be right. Lees performance had a hell of a time getting this bike mapped right. They kept saying they recieved bad power commanders from the factory. But I know or would like to think Dave Owen and Lee Sheirts would not let the bike leave their place poorly mapped. I remember my friend said AFR was between 11.0- 11.8 across the board. Maybe the powercommander screwed up... or the shop... time will tell. Thanks for your insight I'll keep you posted.
If anyone should know how to map a turbo bike it would be dave or lees ....Something went very wrong .....Let us know what you find out ...
yeah thin ring groove on stock pistons
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
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davej
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posted June 03, 2008 09:57 AM
Reminds me of the old days when there were no guidelines for mixture, pistons, plugs, sucked valves, killed engines right and left. Thats why I bought the Muzzy kit, was a hell of alot cheaper just to pay for the R&D than go through all that expense.
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Triumph guy
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duncan
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posted June 04, 2008 01:13 PM
quote:
Reminds me of the old days when there were no guidelines for mixture, pistons, plugs, sucked valves, killed engines right and left. Thats why I bought the Muzzy kit, was a hell of alot cheaper just to pay for the R&D than go through all that expense.
Are you saying the Mr. Turbo kit is no good or what...please elaborate!
Talked to my buddy today and...YEP...oil is coming out the crank case breather.{lots} It never did this at first so I'm assuming his breather tube was not to long Smokin. But this is starting to sound like some major "blow by" in #4. I think he's going to call Colby Adams and have him take a peek at his motor and possibly drop the compression and add water injection. I'm afraid his rings, piston and maybe cylinder are toast in #4.
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davej
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posted June 04, 2008 02:31 PM
Edited By: davej on 4 Jun 2008 16:02
Mr Turbo makes a great kit and it would be very difficult to find one better. My old racing buddy in Pomona California runs a race shop and is a dealer for Muzzy. Mapping is important very important and poorly done will not work with anyones kit, neither will riding it like you stole it. Above 8 lbs you should get the turbo pistons which come with taper or keystone rings along with new competition valve springs. Above 5 lbs you need a larger capacity fuel pump and regulator. Blow by is common with turbo kits, after the Ely Nevada run parked the 14 at Montego Bay Casino with a bunch of other bikes, mostly Harleys. Had forgot to dump the 1/2 cup breather tank and was the only bike there with a small puddle under it. Need to drop the oil pan and shorten the breather as per smokin14. Mine was mapped in December and will need to be redone for summer riding before I get froggy with the throttle.
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Triumph guy
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busa200
Parking Attendant
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posted June 04, 2008 06:12 PM
Edited By: busa200 on 4 Jun 2008 19:15
Bike was mapped at 11:1 A/F at 60/80/100% throttle.......on C12 to be safe. It made 280 rwhp at about 5psi of boost.....
This bike had issues from new which we had to repair, I had to build a complete new engine for it..It had a wrist pin clip laying in the oil pan.....Kawai warrantied it.....
The first PCUSB fueled two cylinders different from the other two.....fixed that. Next one had accel pump issues when throttle opened quickly.....Would map fine on dyno....when you wetn WFO at 6k rpm would stumble....spent MANY hours on dyno minimizing that....had no probs with earlier 14's, maybe changes on new(08) had effect...PCUSB is different....
Talked with owner about oil blowby....he had changed gearing and possible run into limiter in 3rd gear pretty hard....usually this will cut out two injectors(softcut), leaning out two cylinders(usually one and four....)
Hope he makes out OK...said he had 700 miles on it since release...I put over 100 on the dyno.......
DaveO
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259.85 mph
how fast have you been?
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davej
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posted June 05, 2008 07:19 AM
280 @ 5lbs interesting, is that because of sea level? Does anyone use 2 cycle fuel, 60-1 for the lubrication of the top ring under boost?
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ninja14
Pro
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posted June 05, 2008 06:30 PM
The Muzzy kit plugs the breather..........
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2006 Turbo ZX-14.
2005 V-max 20th Anniv.
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davej
Expert Class
Posts: 451
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posted June 05, 2008 06:57 PM
Mine came with a hose & a small K&N filter. The plug is for the air box where the breather used to go to from the crankcase. You can't plug a breather without making your seals pop out. Maybe that's what wrong with my 73 Triumph.................(that was a breather joke).
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ninja14
Pro
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posted June 05, 2008 09:53 PM
quote:
Mine came with a hose & a small K&N filter. The plug is for the air box where the breather used to go to from the crankcase. You can't plug a breather without making your seals pop out. Maybe that's what wrong with my 73 Triumph.................(that was a breather joke).
I looked at that again.......no wonder it seemed odd - it's gotta breath...
I vented mine to the outside........so does the ATP kit.
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2006 Turbo ZX-14.
2005 V-max 20th Anniv.
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chrisrok
Novice Class
Posts: 63
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posted June 14, 2008 09:55 PM
Just my two cents, anyone that decides to turbocharge a zx 14 should at minimum, pull the head and install valve springs, then replace the head gasket with a thicker one. The stock pistons are less that ideal for any serious turbocharging
(more than 6psi). You can get away with murder as long as a tank is loaded with vp c-16 for fuel, but when good old pump gas is in the well you better have a good mapped machine. The zx 14 is a very efficient motor and does not require a lot of boost to make some serious power. With that said, proper turbo sizing (inlet/exducer size, A.R.) is extremely ctitical. Some of the smaller a.r. turbos will make decent power at low boost level, but the inlet temp can get very high, which can lead to detonation. I personally prefer larger turbochargers that can be run a very low boost levels and still make monster hp with cool inlet temps. I use 54mm inducers in the street kits that I put together, and they run great on the street and track. They start to spool up hard as low as 3500 rpm. Just my two cents, not trying to step on anyones toes.
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dubious
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posted June 15, 2008 05:18 AM
Chris, are you running Garrett GT30r or 35r ?
Who is making the pistons with keystone rings?
My custom 9.5 :1 JE pistons, and the standard turbo ones they sell use the stock rings for stock bores.
Do I need to machine the ring land for these custom rings, or will they fit in the standard ring groove?
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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chrisrok
Novice Class
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posted June 15, 2008 05:53 AM
Dubious I use both of thoses turbos, my super-street bike has a gt30R, (54mm max. inlet rule), but Im finishing a pro-street bike now that is loaded with a gt-35. We will be running a real-street bike in Bristol this week also, it has a gt-30r turbo also. The real street bike is showing some serious potential, it made 260 h.p at a mere five pounds of boost. We are heading up to Bristol, TN early this week to due some testing. As far as pistons go, I have used those same JE pistons you are refering to without any issues. I stock those pistons, and use them in most all applications that have stock length rods. If I plan on making more than 400 hp, I use 2mm shorter rods, and a custom je piston with 2mm added to the top. The stock Kaw rings have worked well for me so far, so therefore Im not aware of any pistons with keystone rings.
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dubious
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posted June 15, 2008 07:16 AM
Thanks for the reply Chris,
I am using the 2mm shorter carillo rods and the +2 mm compression deck pistons as you are for 400+ HP.
Mine are 9.5:1 compression for better off boost response and drivability.
Ceramic domes, and anti friction coated sides.
I am sending you a PM
Chris are you selling systems?
I
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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bayou boy
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posted June 16, 2008 03:40 AM
i don't have a turbo, but i have a 1417 cc kit, an i heard tickin noise also, it was my number 4 rod..... i got failcon rods, don't know why it happen, but one thing i did notice i went to rev limter also, with these 14's, the rods go easier than most bikes.... i 'm going switch to corella rods & muzzy 1418cc pistion kit, the 1417 we put together our self an that my have something to do with it with also... but we got 2, one's fine never had a problem,,,
also got webcams, i don't hear a loop at all... i wonder is that reg with these 14's.
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