BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted February 12, 2008 03:05 PM
Paint advice PING Paint gurus
OK you guys may remember that I got my bike painted flat black with red stripes not to long ago... Well I have a problem the shop that painted it had never done a FLAT finish before and I dont know if it their fault or not but the paint SCRATCHES very easily!!! I mean if you GENTLY rub the back of your fingernail accross it it NOTICABLY scratches... SO I call the paint shop and the guy said he was worried that that might happen cause they dont have a baking booth or whatever it is called. He said it needed to be a semi-gloss finish for it to stand up to wear. I said that is fine he called it an eggshell finish. Well he called me today and said that he had talked to his Sherwin Williams representative and that he said even the eggshell finish will scratch easily. I need to know if anyone knows of a solution! Can they put regular clear and hardener over the matte clear or does it need to be sanded down and repainted and then clear and have hardener put on it. The shop doesnt mind reclearing it but they dont want to have to completely repaint it. I dont know what to do and I think some of you guys might have an idea BusaJack for example dont you paint for a living?? any advice you can give would be helpfull. I guess my biggest question is how can they go about putting a regular clear on it without having to repaint it, the painter was worried that if they just scuff off the matte clear and then put a regular clear on it that the regular clear will flake off and not hold to the paint.
HELP GUYS!!
  
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johnsonzx14
Expert Class
Posts: 487
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posted February 12, 2008 03:13 PM
damn that sucks bro.. Im about to do mine, Im doing the bottom half shiney black, and the top half hot rod black.. Its a catalyst paint.. Im not sure if it will scratch easily, but I dont think it will.. the catalyst makes it very hard... You should have been able to just buy some clear and put a dulling agent in the clear.. I guess I could be wrong, Im sure someone will reply with some help for ya....
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busajack5
Expert Class
Rocket lll
Posts: 173
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posted February 12, 2008 05:47 PM
BM,it sounds like they didn't even clear it. The new flat clear additive and hardner were developed just for that reason,to not show things that a high gloss job would.Its not all that new and any painter should have no trouble with it..Somethings not right..Jack
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Jack
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted February 12, 2008 06:27 PM
Jack how would I be able to tell if it has been cleared? can you think of anyhting else that would cause this? Would not being able to bake it cause this. Do you think they could scuff it and put a normal clear over it would it hold??
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sigma14
Expert Class
Posts: 151
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posted February 12, 2008 08:21 PM
Check House of Kolors they have clears coats for multiple applications. It is not recommended to mix brands of paint with different clears and hardners but they may have a solution for you. I never knew sherwin williams even had good automotive paints, but I do know House of Kolors carries urethane and lacquer products.
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busajack5
Expert Class
Rocket lll
Posts: 173
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posted February 12, 2008 10:01 PM
quote:
Jack how would I be able to tell if it has been cleared? can you think of anyhting else that would cause this? Would not being able to bake it cause this. Do you think they could scuff it and put a normal clear over it would it hold??
None of the latest catalized urethanes need to be baked. Its hard for me to tell what to do when I don't know exactly what they used.You should be able to scuff it and re coat. If these guys would just read the instructions with new paints they are fool proof. We use to put talcom or baby powder in lacquer to flatten it. Does it feel really hard or soft. Got any pictures??
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Jack
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted February 12, 2008 10:56 PM
It feels hard with kinda a velvet feel too it. and it is not scratching the paint it is scratching the flat clear VERY easy I am just sick about it and I dont know what to do. I dont want a gloss paint job I wont a flat even a semi gloss but I dont want it scratching so easy. I guess I will tell them to scuff it and just put regular clear and hardener on it and hope it holds and doesnt flake
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crashtech
Zone Head
Posts: 574
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posted February 13, 2008 04:37 PM
That sucks bro, I thought it looked to flat. I have to dissagree with busa on the clearing, I have seen basecoat with more gloss then what you have. It looks like they used to much flattener in the clear. You should be able to reclear it , lightly scuff with 800-1000G, clean well and clear. I have to agree on needing to see it to evaluate it properly. I also have to add that sherwin is not the premium product of choice around here (Nasville, TN) for quality. I do the satin finishes in my shop all the time. They need about 30-40% gloss. I have matched some that have been 40-60% as well. PPG (the company I work for) has a flat clear that can be mixed by volume or weight with there conventional clears to give a certain degree of gloss. I will try and show you the differance between the degree's of gloss in the pics below. The wheel pics (one with flash and one without) ......wheel 50-60% and the rotor carriers 30-40%. The bike pic is that job done outside with the bags that I matched.
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crashtech
Zone Head
Posts: 574
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posted February 13, 2008 04:46 PM
Oh yea, by the way......I personally would not even consider applying ANY topcoat (clear, flat or not) that did not have a hardner or catylist.
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted February 13, 2008 05:35 PM
Thanks I am gonna talk to them tommorrow. Yes the clear they put on is a completely flat clear with NO gloss. It is not what I wanted I wanted the look of the 2008 zx14 limited if you are familiar with that. I wonder if it would be ok to put PPG clear over Sherwin Williams paint. I could buy the clear for them to use how much would I need to clear a ZX14
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crashtech
Zone Head
Posts: 574
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posted February 13, 2008 06:19 PM
If I apply the dcu 2060 strait then it looks like rubber it is so flat (still does not scratch easy). Hence the intermixing. Yes I have done a 14. They are 40-50% gloss. Yes you can apply it over sherwin as long it is fully cured and you scuff it up with 800-1000 grit paper. The only draw back to using PPG is you will need to buy everything (flat clear, conventional clear, hardner). You can get everything in quarts. You will need about 1-2 quarts RTS (ready to spray) depending on spraying style and gun set-up. If you get everything in quarts it will make 1-2 RTS quarts and you will have 20% flat clear and 70% conventional clear left over. Everything will cost you about 135-145.00 bucks from a jobber. My recomendation is.....
1 quart DCU 2060....35-48.00
1 quart DC 3000/4000....55-65.00
2 8oz DCH 30XX (70,85,95,98, depending on temp)....21-35.00
Then you will need to mix by volume at
7 parts flat clear
1 part conventional clear
Now you have your clear mixture and are ready to activate and spray...
Now you must take this clear mixture and reduce it by volume at
4 parts clear mixture
1 part DCH 30XX hardner
This mixture will give you a 40-50% gloss
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BlackMagic14
Needs a job
Posts: 2058
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posted February 13, 2008 11:09 PM
Can I order this stuff from you. I may pay for this stuff from you and just take it to them to do the actual work. or do you know of a PPG dealer in Arkansas?
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crashtech
Zone Head
Posts: 574
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posted February 14, 2008 06:10 PM
Well the EPA and OSHA is freaky about shipping hazmat. You would be better off getting them local. You can look in your local phone book under automotive body shop supplies, supply, materials, equipment, ect. . If you are in a small town look in the closest metropolitan area. When you find somebody close, call them and ask where you can get PPG paint. Ask your buddy who painted your bike and he should know also. By the way here is a track bike I finished last night...........
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