Bunyip
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted March 26, 2007 04:44 PM
zx14- An Aussie perspective
This is my first post and as it has been a long time coming , it is a bit long, so apologies in advance............
I bought a red zx14 1 month ago and covered around 1000kms in that time. I find the bike 90% great, but 10% infuriatingly bad! I love the light clutch, the strong front brake, the neutral balanced feel and engine smoothness .It is one of the easiest bikes I have ever ridden and was comfortable scraping pegs on the first day.
HOWEVER, the low rev power-sapping secondary butterflies have to one of the most stupid inclusions ever added to a motorcycle. Instead of making a bike user-friendly they make the bikes power very unpredictable and hence potentially dangerous. I have read similar comments to mine by others, but am amazed by others saying they like it!!! When I was first getting used to the bike it was not a major issue ,but I have now had a few scary moments, when, with the wife on board I have made overtaking moves on single laned back-roads. Being aware of the lack of power below 6000rpms, I changed down to 2nd gear, had about 3500-4000 rpms on board and cracked the throttle open, only to have the most lethargic acceleration imaginable. If a car came around the corner ahead we were gonners. Not impressed Kawasaki. I,m now not confident overtaking with this bike and that is crazy considering it has 1350ccc! Ok, to get around this, dial up 6000+rpms and have massive acceleration and risk losing the missus off the back! On similar large capacity bikes ,like my old Busa, I would have had the acceleration I expected. On my other bike a k6 gsxr1000, I would have been past in a flash. On bikes like the Busa and 1000cc sports bikes , the power is NOT dangerous. Modern ecu,s deliver progressive and easy to control power. If anybody feels a bike like the zx14 needs "safety" detuning at low revs they shouldn,t be riding large capacity bikes. I know the fix and I am going to do it very soon. A year ago I was keen to buy this bike, but early reviews detailing this problem turned me away. It was only when I read the posts here that I realised that the problem could be corrected . A recent test ride with the wife and riding at modest speeds confirmed the refinement of the bike. As the gixxer was no good pillioning we were looking for another pillion bike , having sold the busa last year. But, the more I ride it the more the butterfly problem is annoying me. Squeeze the throttle open at low revs and the bike accelerates half ok, but give it a bit more throttle and it seems to go slower! On the Busa I would spend 90% of my time under 6000rpms- thats the beauty of a large capacity bike...........lope around using the engines torque and every so often let it howl and hit the redline. I can,t do that on this bike. But I will soon. At the same time as fly removal and retuning with a power commander ,I plan to get a new exhaust. I think twin pipes suit this bike , but want to lose weight as well. I like the look of the twin cans with Nassert-Beet and Tsukigi titanium pipes. I,ve got some details on the Nassert-Beet, but can,t find anything on the Tsukigi pipes. If anybody has either of these pipes on their 14, could they please pass on their thoughts about the pipes and details on weight and noise levels of the Tsukigi. A Japanese Tsukigi web-site lists an Arete Vortex system at 94dB and an SP system at 97dB. Do you have both systems in the USA.? I,d probably go for the quieter ones. There don,t appear to be any distributors for these pipes in Australia. Ryan Schnitz is a distributor I believe. If you are reading this Ryan ,please give me details including prices.
Sorry about the long rant, but Kawasaki have really fecked-up here, and now I have to spend $1000+ more to get it the way it should have been when I bought it!. And this is costing Kawasaki sales. Here in Australia you hardly ever see a 14, and I bet the reason is this fly issue! Its a bloody good bike otherwise. I,m encouraged by the reports from you guys- Kruz etc. I can,t wait to get it fixed; just have to get my pipes first. I,m told I can,t use pre-programmed maps as you do in the US, as your fuel is different and it wont work here. The cheapest price for a PC3 and mapping here in Sydney is $800. If the new Busa doesn,t resort to secondary flys it will kill the 14 in sales over here!
One possible solution for the 14 is a k7 gsxr1000 type solution with multiple maps. I feel kawasaki have sold the 14 with only the wet road map on board, but I want the dry road map! Also, probably because of few sales, I can,t find any zx14 forums in Australia, but I have noticed a few Aussies posting recently here, so thats why I decided to join . We will have to get together and compare notes. Perhaps even have an Aussie sub-section?
Other short comments- ground clearance is fair, maybe slightly worse than the busa, so I will have to learn to hang off the bike more. I was going to remove the peg feelers, but it looks as if the fairing will ground soon after, so I will have to leave them on. I wouldn,t advise peg lowering or bike lowering if you ever like winding roads.
Suspension setup-I enjoyed Blues article ,but from my perspective his settings are back-to front. Over here most back roads are too bumpy and this makes the standard suspension jolt too sharply over bumps, but at the same time wallow too much. The solution (for these roads, not track or expressway) is to increase spring pre-load at both ends. Screw front down so see 1-2 MORE lines and using a large screwdriver and hammer to tighten rear spring by one full turn (I,m about 90kgs or 200lbs in leathers).
Then soften up compression and rebound damping by 2-3 clicks. The transformation in handling is amazing. Try it......(bumpy roads though). The rear shouldn,t sag when you sit on it( and as japs are lighter) increasing spring load is essential. For some of you large guys this is a must. And it is easy to do. The hammer and screwdriver technique may sound harsh but doesn,t damage anything and is easy to do. Almost impossible using a ring spanner.
Glad to join all you Kawasaki enthusiasts.
  
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zx14r191
Novice Class
Posts: 54
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posted March 26, 2007 05:14 PM
I completely agree. The lack of grunt low down has made some overtaking manouvers troublesome. I will be biting the bullet and pulling the flies like the rest of the guys here soon. It will be interesting to see if Suzuki produce a new Busa and whether they neuter it also - if not Kawi will be hurting!
S.
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06 ZX14
04 R1 - race bike
01 R1 - big bore stroker - 191 rwhp
06 ZX6R - wife's
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raband
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted March 26, 2007 05:33 PM
Hey Bunyip - Welcome from another Aussie (there's a few here)
Am into my third month now (just) and have over 4k on the ODO.
My thoughts were exactly the same as yours regarding the butterflies and they are definately going to be pulled at the first (real) service.I couldn't believe the reviews I read where they were mentioning that there was enough power/torque to take off in any gear at any speed. Were they given the same bikes as what we got or ones without the butterflies?
Like you, I'm (was) used to cruising under 6k - 5th or 6th gear usually on the Blackbird on the 80km/h roads. Is pretty obvious that something is "wrong" when you need to be in 3rd or 4th (sometimes 2nd) on the same roads at the same speeds on the ZX14.
You will, however, get used to it within the next 1000kms or so as it becomes second nature to drop down to second to go anywhere at all and casually cruise along with the engine up around the 5k mark and a couple of gears lower than you usually would. The throttle is still very precise and controlable that you wont be throwing the mrs off the back.
Taking off semi quick from a standing start is the main place now where I have issues. There is no half measures. It seems as if the flies cause everything to become unbalanced low down - bike starts to bog down - more clutch - revs increase - less clutch - bogs down - more throttle - flies open and power comes on and the throttle/clutch are in totally the wrong places for where they need to be for the amount of power that's now available.
One good thing is the rarity of the bikes over here - definately not something that every man and his dog is getting hold of. Lets keep it a secret and not go the route of the busa where everyone has them? Attended the Superbikes at the Island last month and only saw 2 other 14's. Everyone was totally intrigued in the bike.
Don't know any reason why a comparitive map for the PCIII shouldn;t work over here - they may grade or rate their fuel differently, but it's still petrol. Powercommander have a few maps on their site for different setups and an appropriate one from there may be fine here. Other pipe manufacturers also have their own maps.
How much are you looking at for just the PCIII without mapping or dyno etc?
Suspension is the next thing I need to start playing with, and feel I'm at home on the bike enough now to be able to start playing.
____________
PS - its black - its f'kn sexy and it pulls better than a dentist
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buddy
Expert Class
Posts: 335
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posted March 26, 2007 06:01 PM
 Edited By: buddy on 26 Mar 2007 19:26
Be aware, when you do remove the secondaries, you might lose the missus even at very low RPM. The acceleration,after removing them, at the lower RPMs is about all it could be for the street .
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted March 26, 2007 09:46 PM
Hi, At least you guys aren't like some of these europeans- PRAISING the "ABS" brakes!
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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Bunyip
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted March 26, 2007 10:54 PM
Hey ,hello raband.
I was quoted $500 for pc3 and $300 for mapping at Doin bikes (was at Lansvale). I,m at Castle Hill. Yeah, I was at PI too for the supers, but went on the k6 as I was doing the afterburners track day. I saw about three 14s but only spoke to one guy who didn,t notice the power issue ( previous bike a honda 750 though!) I saw one wth staintune slip-ons but I,m not a fan of oval pipes. Another option is to get the cans gutted incuding cat removal and internals effectively race slip-ons but retains stock appearance at Forans exhausts ,central coast(quoted $500) I should lose around 5kgs, but am tempted to lose 10+ kgs with titanium pipes. If I can,t get the pipes I mentioned soon, I will go with this option first. Good to share some info.
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raband
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted March 26, 2007 11:02 PM
quote:
Hi, At least you guys aren't like some of these europeans- PRAISING the "ABS" brakes!
Surprised me more than anyone else that I was looking for more power from the Worlds Most Powerful Roadbike as soon as I got it from the dealer.
People just looked at me dumbfounded by the sincerity that I told them there was a quick, easy mod that gave an extra 40hp down low and that the bike needed it.
____________
PS - its black - its f'kn sexy and it pulls better than a dentist
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raband
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted March 26, 2007 11:18 PM
quote:
Hey ,hello raband.
I was quoted $500 for pc3 and $300 for mapping at Doin bikes (was at Lansvale). I,m at Castle Hill. Yeah, I was at PI too for the supers, but went on the k6 as I was doing the afterburners track day. I saw about three 14s but only spoke to one guy who didn,t notice the power issue ( previous bike a honda 750 though!) I saw one wth staintune slip-ons but I,m not a fan of oval pipes. Another option is to get the cans gutted incuding cat removal and internals effectively race slip-ons but retains stock appearance at Forans exhausts ,central coast(quoted $500) I should lose around 5kgs, but am tempted to lose 10+ kgs with titanium pipes. If I can,t get the pipes I mentioned soon, I will go with this option first. Good to share some info.
Excellent racing there - was the one with the staintunes a red one? The other one I saw was a black one with the rear indicator mod and ZX-XIV number plate. Followed him for a couple of kms will he turned off to the campsite - thought how tuff the bike looked and kept reminding myself I was on the same thing 
Would be interested to do the afterburners, but would imagine there'd be too many tossers on the track at once to keep calm over. Have been there on quieter days when ego's are lower than skill (or skill is higher than ego's) 
Is the $300 mapping for dynotuning or just for supplying an appropriate map? I'll probably be trying to do the flies, PC3 and an air filter initially (have remus slipons with removeable baffles) with a "borrowed" map, and then look at tuning it properly with a couple of maps once I'm sure thats where I'm leaving it for a while. One map for "normal" riding and another for touring with the baffles in and a passenger and luggage. May go a full system in the end, will see how the bike is after it's "fixed" with the first round of mods.
Hopefully will be a few more (but not too many - don't want to be "common") 14's come GP time.
____________
PS - its black - its f'kn sexy and it pulls better than a dentist
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted March 27, 2007 10:14 AM
There is a guy on this board that will sell you a PC with the flies out map installed . . .
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Stuart
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Ridin' the Trump train.
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nemesis
Novice Class
Posts: 51
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posted March 27, 2007 11:31 AM
Aussie aussie aussie,oi oi OI!
Welcome bunyip,ahoy to another aussie,il pm you soon buddy.
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LindenZX
Parking Attendant
Posts: 2
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posted March 27, 2007 12:20 PM
Another Aussie owner enters the fray. I've had my black ZX14 for three weeks now with 2000kms up on it with terrific country riding.
Like most of you I am a bit dissapointed at the the lack of low end grunt, my old ZZR1100 had more down low with a nice Laser race system. However you do start to compensate for it and the engine frees up a fair bit during break in.
I have just installed the Muzzy M10 and power commander and what a rush that is. It sounds absolutely sensational but I don't how long I will get away with it. I'm not sure what the decibel limit is for this pipe - anyone know? As a comparison in noise levels, whilst the Laser system (full) had a race muffler it had a nice deep note that still let you hear the induction roar at full throttle, the M10 is much louder and all you can hear is the pipe all the time. After several hours riding my ears are ringing -I will be using ear plugs in the future.
Re the PCIII and fuel, I only use the 98 octane local stuff and the map supplied for this pipe seems to work perfectly. Does anyone know if there is a map for this pipe with the flies removed as I might do this in the next few weeks?
I met up with another local owner with 17000km clocked up and he was impressed the flames shooting out of the canister when decelarting. We started talking about tyres and his experience with the OEM Bridgestones was that the rear tyre didn't provide either the mileage or grip of the Michelin Pilot road tyres he is now using.
Luggage wise, I have fitted the SW-Motech tankring and tail rack and am using the The Bags Connection Daytripper tripper II tank bag during personal riding. IThe rack allows me ti install Givi E52 top box for longer trips with the missus and I thsi setup is a class above the local Ventura gear (who needs the GT version when you can tailor your bike in this manner).
Thanks to all of you for your input and information, it makes the ownership experience that much better.
I'll through this in for comments, I've read that high grade diesel engine oil (dino or synthetic) is just as good as the highly priced smaller quantities of motorcycle specific oil sold in bike shops????? It is especially suitable for counteracting acid build up and the demands of running in the transmission - just make sure there are no friction modifiers in it. Any thoughts?
Safe riding everyone. What a motorcycle!!
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Bunyip
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted March 28, 2007 10:30 PM
Raband, sorry about slow reply- had a few busy days at work.
The prices I was given was $500 for the PC3 and $300 extra for a custom dynotune using Tuning link software. I was told the mapping price would be more if i didn,t buy the pc3 through him. A mate of mine had an Arata slip-on and tune done by this guy on his k5 gsxr1000 that gave an extra 10hp right through the range from around 5000rpm upwards.
Quite impressive! I,m curious about your remus cans- how much?, from where? how much do they weigh? and are you happy with the sound? Are you in Sydney?
I,m getting no response on the Tsukigis, so I may have to start a special thread or try something else.
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raband
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted March 28, 2007 11:05 PM
quote:
Raband, sorry about slow reply- had a few busy days at work.
The prices I was given was $500 for the PC3 and $300 extra for a custom dynotune using Tuning link software. I was told the mapping price would be more if i didn,t buy the pc3 through him. A mate of mine had an Arata slip-on and tune done by this guy on his k5 gsxr1000 that gave an extra 10hp right through the range from around 5000rpm upwards.
Quite impressive! I,m curious about your remus cans- how much?, from where? how much do they weigh? and are you happy with the sound? Are you in Sydney?
I,m getting no response on the Tsukigis, so I may have to start a special thread or try something else.
Am in Melbourne.
Am happy with the Remus cans - fantastic deep growl. Have the baffles removed and is a simple matter to put them back in if I ever find the urge to. Not sure how much they weigh - had them installed before I picked up the bike (original exhausts are packed away un-used). May have been around $1200 for the cans - not too sure (was part of the complete deal - bike on road, cans, panniers, tank bag/cover)
$300 isn't too bad a price for the tuning (as far as I know), but I'd definately wait til you decide on pipes. Most maps will be available for full systems already so the tuning may not be worth the price for negligable differences.
Am waiting for my 6k service to do PC3 , flies and go to a blended oil. Once this happens I'll be in a better position to know whether or not the cans are worthwhile. Will be using the maps from a bloke who bought the same setup as myself earlier - dynotuning got him to around 175hp RW I think. As long as the A/F is ok for me then I'll be happy. Will probably dyno myself once I'm settled into what I want done with the bike.
____________
PS - its black - its f'kn sexy and it pulls better than a dentist
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted March 29, 2007 04:27 AM
Edited By: BobC on 29 Mar 2007 05:58
Hi Bunyip,
Interesting that you make the comparison between the Kwakker and your K6. The Suzuki has secondary butterflies too but on that bike the ecu is mapped properly.
You will love the Kawasaki 100% when you get it sorted. Funny that most 14 owners see this as a fault, it occupy's a huge amount of space on forums like ZX-14.com and Kawasaki have never offered any comment at all. It's a shame we can't just do a software upgrade on the ecu.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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nemesis
Novice Class
Posts: 51
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posted March 29, 2007 08:30 AM
Hey raband im in melbourne as well!
Who do you,or will you take your zx to for tuning,service etc???
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raband
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted March 29, 2007 12:12 PM
Through Mornington
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Bunyip
Parking Attendant
Posts: 11
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posted March 29, 2007 01:01 PM
Yes, Bob, a software upgrade would be a nice simple answer. Kawasaki should give us the option of a soft lower end or not, not a fixed detuned bike we are sold. Has anybody heard of "tuneboy"? I have heard that it is a tuning tool for ecus, but may only do air/fuel ratios?? My car ( an evo9 lancer) has been retuned using ECUTEK tuning software and it adjusts timing as well. Surely there is something similar for bikes?
ps Bob- How loud is your Ti force and is it low or high mount? 192hp must feel good!
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted March 29, 2007 06:02 PM
Tonytooth has a TiForce hi mount and it sounds absolutely awesome.
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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raband
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted March 30, 2007 01:10 AM
quote:
My car ( an evo9 lancer) has been retuned using ECUTEK tuning software and it adjusts timing as well. Surely there is something similar for bikes?
quote]
Are you after something more than the Powercommander does?
____________
PS - its black - its f'kn sexy and it pulls better than a dentist
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted March 30, 2007 06:58 AM
Edited By: BobC on 30 Mar 2007 08:00
quote:
Yes, Bob, a software upgrade would be a nice simple answer. Kawasaki should give us the option of a soft lower end or not, not a fixed detuned bike we are sold. Has anybody heard of "tuneboy"? I have heard that it is a tuning tool for ecus, but may only do air/fuel ratios?? My car ( an evo9 lancer) has been retuned using ECUTEK tuning software and it adjusts timing as well. Surely there is something similar for bikes?
ps Bob- How loud is your Ti force and is it low or high mount? 192hp must feel good!
The TiForce is pretty loud, enough to make me back off in a built up area but brilliant on full throttle with the revs climbing. The extra power and weight-saving over the stock bike is a revelation.
This photo is the bike prepared for a speed meeting last September, except I lowered it another three inches for the actual sprint, the pipe is around the same height as the standard exhaust. Only change since then is a tail tidy.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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