Phytrax
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Posts: 526
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posted November 08, 2006 08:10 PM
 Edited By: Phytrax on 8 Nov 2006 20:12
quote:
Phytrax you would be amazed at the power difference between your bike and a bike with the flies removed and a brock pipe with a brock map. it really makes the bike come alive.
Ya, I'm working on it !!! 
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Mano 2
Expert Class
Posts: 360
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posted November 08, 2006 08:26 PM
Gen 3, map, no flies, no wheelspin
Same setup, 6" extensions, lowered, wheelspin.
Texas Mile
Same results on my 12 as Halvefast w/taller gears. I did get higher trap speed, and my 12 did accelerate better rolling. It was geared shorter than my 14 stock. 198 at the limiter.
I have won against anything short geared from a roll consistently.
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Mano 2
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posted November 08, 2006 08:34 PM
Phytrax,
18x40 is about a 9% taller gear from 17x41
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Mano 2
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posted November 08, 2006 08:40 PM
With Gen 3, no flies, street map, my computer shows better mileage on the instant calculator.
I haven't calculated trip or average mileage yet.
But the Speedohealer has made my odo and my computer 10% off so it's a little harder to calculate.
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ninja14
Pro
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posted November 09, 2006 12:58 AM
And remember.........if the speedo is right then the ODO is wrong. The speedo is off about 8% stock, but the ODO is damn close. I did two 1000+mile trips and it was pretty close. I set my speedohealer to show very close to stock setting b/c I wanted the ODO to be correct.
$.02
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Phytrax
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Posts: 526
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posted November 09, 2006 04:25 AM
I'd rather my speedo be right, I hate running numbers through my head trying to figure out how many mph over the speed limit I am, distracts me from the task at hand, staying alive.
I kinda figured the Gen3 would improve mileage just a bit, makes the engine run more efficiently, especially since it's set up rich from the factory.
I figured 8.5% taller gearing with 18/40.
18/17*41/40= 1.0853... guess that's right. 9%, same thing, just checking my calculations.
I think I'm going to go with 18/41 for now to save the cost of the back sprocket. That will give me 5.9% higher gearing, so my speedo will only be off by 3mph at 100mph. I can live with that, and save the cost and extra wiring of a speedo healer. I thought about going with 19/41,but I might have trouble carrying the front tire with that, and I don't even know if anyone sells a 19 front sprocket. Also thought it might cause chain fitment problems with stock rear sprocket.
Can someone recommend a sprocket vendor?
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Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
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fastestbusaaround
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posted November 09, 2006 04:36 AM
ZX1KR...I bought 16/43's from him...service was great and he knows what he's doing! He's always on the boards...just send him a PM..
BTW, the bike speedo is off by 8.5% now, so when you go to the higher gears you mentioned, it should be bang on with no S/H needed...but the gear position indicator may not work correctly. There are a few reads around here on that. Typically, you may see 1/2/3/3/4/5 and no 6th. Thats what happened with the S/H i installed...try it without it 1st, you might just get lucky. I think you'll see some serious performance degradation on acceleration though with this setup, though when you remove the flies, it'll honk like a bitch, but you'll see a more sluggish low end response, better than you have now with the flies in, but nowhere near as good as with the stock gears. When I installed the 16/43's, the bike went wild and the gears all dropped down one...so 2nd now is like 1st was before etc... Way better for city but higher revving on the highway...though now in all the higher gears, it pulls like a bat outta hell. Good luck!
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Phytrax
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posted November 09, 2006 05:49 AM
Edited By: Phytrax on 9 Nov 2006 06:01
I don't think the sprockets will affect the gear indicator. I think the speedohealer is what's messing up the gear indicator because the RPM and the speed signal don't match up with the ranges stored in the computer. If you just change sprockets with no healer, the indicated speed and rpm should still be in sync because the INDICATED speed will be the same for any RPM value, even though the ACTUAL speed is different.
I understand that the higher gears become a lot more aggressive with the higher gearing, because you are essentially turning 6th gear into 5th. I can do that just by downshifting. If I ride around in 4th gear at 65mph the bike performs great, even better in 3rd, which puts the bike around 5000rpm at 65mph (guesstimate), and gives me another 65mph or so to work with on top end, more than enough for a little sport cruising on country roads. With the flys and exhaust mods I figure 5th gear will be very impressive, and 4th a monster (hopefully). Maybe you guys just ride more aggressively than me but I swear 6 gears is to many for 150mph, IMO, I just get sick of shifting. That's why I was hoping for some good ET's with 2 different gearings, but I guess that hasn't been tested much. If you can carry the front tire all the way through first gear, what good is lowering it more? I guess I'm going to be the one to test all of this. I'm going to make some stock runs then switch to the 18 tooth. Can't be that much work and money involved in changing the front sprocket, then I'll know for sure. Hell, I might even try 18/39 or something similar if it's available.
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RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
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Mano 2
Expert Class
Posts: 360
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posted November 09, 2006 08:53 AM
My gear indicator is funky too.
Posted dealer fix a month ago I think.
Guess I need to take it in.
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fastestbusaaround
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posted November 09, 2006 09:42 AM
Phy-- I doubt you'll have much success with 18/39's, the bike will be a complete pig...won't be much quicker than a ZX6, if it's even that quick, IMO but you're right about the S/H...if you stay just with a sprocket change, speedo will be fine and would be closer to the actual speed than it is right now too.
Mano, if you're seeing the wrong gears indicated in 4th and up for a few seconds when you shift or depress the clutch, that's normal behavior -- due to the engineering (or lack of) that Kawasaki engineers used to determine gear position. 
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Phytrax
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posted November 09, 2006 10:11 AM
Edited By: Phytrax on 9 Nov 2006 10:33
Ya, mine shows the wrong gear for 2 or 3 seconds after I let the clutch out then it's correct. All that's going on is the computer is matching up the rpm with what speed it should be for which gear on a built in chart I guess. It takes a couple of sec to calculate that when you let out the clutch. There is no actual gear sensor it seems.
FYI, I just got an e-mail from Brock and he recommends keeping the stock gearing with aftermarket exhaust and flies out. He says it's just about perfect in HIS opinion and doesn't recommend 18 OR 16 in the front.
I still want to try the 18 in the front, it's easy enough to change back. I'm going to leave the rear alone though. I disagree about the ZX6 comment FBA, but you're right that 18/39 is proably a bit much. In the end I should have a 9% increase in power with a 5.9% increase in gearing. That will give me a bit more pull on top end and a LOT more pull on low end with the flies out. Right? I understand that I won't GAIN anything at the track with 18 vs 17, I just think that if I can save a shift I might not LOSE anything at the track either. Should also make the bike more "pleasant" to ride on the street.
Ok, physics example here of the way I'm looking at this, I'm pretty sure this is correct:
Let's say you gear the ZX-14 so it has the same power to weight ratio at the back wheel as a ZX-6, such that you pull dead even until the ZX-6 hits the rev limiter in 1st. At this point the ZX-14 due to higher power to weight ratio at the motor (not the rear wheel) should have a LOT more gear left. This means when the ZX-6 shifts to 2nd ZX-14 should walk away from it easily. When the ZX-14 shifts to 2nd the ZX-6 will make some of this distance but not much. I'm using absolute rear wheel power in this example, now RWHP as it would back calculated through the gearing, etc on a dyno.
It's hard to judge the net effect of all this without some really consistent ET's, which don't seem to be very common for stock wheel base and various gearings. My guess is you would lose less than a tenth in the 1/4 mile. I do know that IF YOU DON'T HIT THE REV LIMITER AT THE EXACT MOMENT YOU CROSS THE FINISH LINE YOUR BIKE IS GEARED WRONG, no matter what gear you finish in.
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fastestbusaaround
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posted November 09, 2006 03:25 PM
Not really, there's no power gain by changing gears...all you end up doing is shifting the powerband up or down depending on the sprockets going up or down in the front/back. Putting an 18 up front will slow the bike down in acceleration...by quite a bit, you'll see that when you try it. My guess is that with an 18 down there, the bike will bog at 3K and be more sluggish up to 5k than it is now. When I said a 6 would beat it, I meant that it would be slow down low, where it really excels now. Try it...then you'll see what I mean. I went the other way and now it runs through the gears and revs far faster than before. The front end won't stay down on roll ons or throttle snaps in 1st and 2nd now...you've got to pay attention to that throttle twist now...or you cold be headed for some trouble. It was so drastic, it freaked me out, but the same thing will happen in reverse if you go up to an 18/39...IMO. It will be a pig compared to the stock gears. Put it this way, you wont be running 9's or low 10's. Most of the guys here have gone the other way for lower ET's on the track, when they did a sprocket change. There was one guy here recently posting an 8.70 something with 16/43's with a pipe, PC -- stretched and slammed but no motor work or NOS.
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Phytrax
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posted November 09, 2006 04:46 PM
Edited By: Phytrax on 9 Nov 2006 16:47
The amount of torque applied to the rear wheel changes based on gearing, that's why it goes through the gears faster, that's what I was referring to, not actual engine torque. When you run a bike on a dyno the dyno reads the actual force at the back wheel, then uses numbers that are entered in manually (reflecting gear ratios and sprocket sizes) to back calculate how much torque and hp the engine would have to put out to give this reading if there was no friction. I admit, I've never run a dyno, but I'm almost positive this is correct.
I'm not going to even attempt the 18/39's but I'll bet I can get under 9.5 sec with 18/41's. Ok, I suck at the track right now, very little experience, but I'll be around that. My best run stock was 10.7 sec with a .8 reaction time. I didn't have nearly enough rpm at launch. Then again that was my first 5 runs ever at a track. I'll have to slip the clutch more than you do running 18/41's, but after that I'm expecting smooth runs.
Please note, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I appreciate all the input. I just really enjoy debating stuff like this. I don't get to engage in involved, intelligent conversations that often, lol.
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Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
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fastestbusaaround
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posted November 09, 2006 05:09 PM
Hey!! I'm rootin fer ya Phy...if you get into the 9.5's with that sprocket...you'll be doin wonders! I hope I'm wrong and you blow 'em all away but you've gotta be well into the 200's looking at your picture...and to be that size with 18's up front at under 9 fuckin' 5...that's gonna be some feat. If you get there (and I hope you do)...I'd say you've earned your stripes!
btw, didn't take it as argumentative, more like informative.
"I don't get to engage in involved, intelligent conversations that often, lol." Neither do I... 
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Bently
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posted November 09, 2006 05:20 PM
By guessing what you weigh you will have a very hard time getting a 9.5 with that gearing
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Phytrax
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Posts: 526
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posted November 10, 2006 06:20 AM
I'm gonna try some passes with the stock sprocket first so I'll have a baseline. I weigh about 225 in shorts right now, (lost 15 lbs ).
Here's my logic: I ran a 10.7 quarter with a 0.8 reaction at 137mph, so that's a 9.8 with a good reaction. I also didn't have a great launch that time, it was ok, but not good. So I figure I could pull at least a 9.7 stock. With Gen3 and PC3 I was thinking 9.4 with stock gears and maybe 9.5 with 18 tooth. Am I figuring that right or do they subtract our your reaction time when you run solo?
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Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
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Bently
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posted November 10, 2006 07:21 AM
Your reaction time does not affect your et at all. Weather you run by yourself or with some one else.
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Phytrax
Zone Head
Posts: 526
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posted November 10, 2006 07:37 AM
Well, that actually makes more sense. I felt like I had lost more than a couple tenths through first, I just didn't realize they clocked it like that.
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Concourse14- Corbin Seat, Candy Apple Red Paint, Area P Slip-On
RIP+ZX-14- Brock's Gen3, Heli Risers, Corbin Bags, Corbin Seat and Oval Backrest (Burgandy Snakeskin and black alligator), Muzzys Frame Sliders, flies out, 18t front sprocket, PC3, Puig Double Bubble, Pirelli Diablo Strada's
KX450F - kickstand
>>> MySpace --CLICK-- <<<
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