posted August 06, 2006 04:54 AM
secondary flies would this work? hi all
having a look at the secondary flies i notice they have a positive stop at the throttle cables plate. so i have attached a small tab at the throttle cable plate and this now stops the secondary flies from closing fully , and how i adjust the tab depends how much i can open them, but so far i only have them open a little
so far it starts ok, ticks over , and no f1 light
can anyone think if there is any bad from what i have done or will this be another good alternative
will not see if there is a performance improvment until the weather takes up
art
posted August 06, 2006 08:41 AM
I don't think there are throttle cables going to the secondaries. It is run completely by the ecu by an enclosed motor. Are you holding open the primary plates?
posted August 06, 2006 09:16 AM
there is a secondary tpi for the secondaries, so I would imagine if you jammed the linkage , eventually you will get a FI error.
The throttle assembly is sold as an entire unit, can not buy just the stepper motor, so if the motor burns up you lookin at big $$$.
Just my 2cents.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
posted August 06, 2006 09:24 AM
If you lock the subthrottle's shaft, then you run the chance of the gear box that controls that shaft to strip the plastic gear. The steel gear inside will shave down that plastic gear, and you are stuck buying a complete DFI assembly. The sub valve actuator component is non-servicalble.
You are playing with over a $1000 worth of trouble.
The Sub's are on the "Fly." Kind of like having a wireless throttle cable. Still need a gear design of some kind to open the throttle even if cables become obsolete. Keep trying something different. Be careful.
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E-tard
posted August 06, 2006 09:27 AM
hi
well just tried it and gone is the flat spot at 3.600 revs and better low down accelaretion
before i carried out the mod i looked to see what was going on
when the ignition is switched on the stepper motor , has a couple of pulses to fully close the secondaries, and then it fully opens them for starting, once the engine has started it closes them again until it hits the positive stop against the throttle cable plate
so now the stepper motor just hits the positive stop a liittle earlier and the flies and now open a little
art
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
posted August 06, 2006 09:31 AM
I think everyone is in consensus that this is a bad idea. That being said, whatever trips your trigger.
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82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
posted August 06, 2006 09:50 AM
Edited By: dubious on 6 Aug 2006 11:17
Actually, If it the ecu is resetting its closed position, or finding closed position reference every time the bike is started, it may not do any harm... , it may not be trying to close the plates completely... just to the new referenced closed position.
I do not know the answer ... but if your willing to chance , be sure to let us know how it works out in a week or 2.
You might be on to something!
The guages are self calibrating, maybe the stepper motor is as well.
I just looked through the service manual, and all it tells is the voltage and resistance parameters, keeps repeating the stepper and TPI are non servicable, and are precicely set at the factory.
I know thats a pile of horse shit because they give a part # an adapter for adjusting, and testing the tpi.
Kawasaki is not selling all of the service info to the public.
There must be a different service manual that the Kawi techs get.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
posted August 06, 2006 11:36 AM
I have a Z1000.I belong to Z1000.net.Over there someone posted a report by Brock Davidson where they removed the secondary throttle plates.I did this.I disconnected the plug for the secondary plates on the right side of the throttle bodies.If you turn the ignition on then unplug it you can here the servo open the plates.Then I made a fuel map from a 2bros slip on and went from there.From 1500-6000 I richened it up a good bit.It works great on my bike.Pulls very hard from 3 grand to 5grand where the z1000 is weak.Also when downshifting you can blip the throttle and not wait for the servo which can't react fast enough.I have a small flat spot from 5500 to6500 in 6th when the throttle is wide open.I'm working on that but it's a sucess.The F I light is on but so is the extra torque.I been a Kaw freak all my life.I bought a new 1975 Kaw Z-1 when I was 19 as my first bike.Can't wait to get a 14.
Craig
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Son dying ain't much of a living from The Outlaw Josey Wales
posted August 08, 2006 01:05 AM
I'd think that the ECU would reset the stepper motor position on every start up depending where the plates are positioned. Usually car EFIs work like this when there is drive by wire throttle like on many modern cars. Also the idle adjuster stepper motors usually work like this too. Maybe if the value from the secondary tpi would be really of it would make a fi light come out. But all this could be saved with first checking the voltage at secondary tpi with normally closed plates, then opening the plates a little bit and adjusting the tpi to the same reading. This way the Ecu would think that it is OK maybe there would be a problem at the other end too, but as said in the beginning usually this kind of stepper motor systems first check both end of possible movement and calibrate the system to this. So the mod sounds like a winner!
posted August 08, 2006 03:50 AM
I just don't see why you just wouldn't pull the plates altogether...everyone who has, has had nothing but praise for the way it runs without them...me included. Why go through all that trouble, when you can just pull them and have the bike run the way it should?
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FYYFF!!!
posted August 08, 2006 04:28 AM
I sure agree with fba----why make this any more difficult than necessary. I have my plates out, Gen 3 exhaust, and a well mapped pc from Dynojet. I could not be happier. The low end is awsome and the power band linier. Last weekend it dynoed at 186.2 hp on a hot crappy day. Who could ask for anything more??
posted August 08, 2006 06:25 AM
Yup...forgot about that...the power band is way more linear now with the flies out. This is the way the bike was intended to be run, IMO.
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FYYFF!!!
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
posted August 08, 2006 06:30 AM
Gotta agree with FBA why mess around pull the plates and enjoy the power you should have. Makes a whole new bike out of it.
posted August 09, 2006 10:36 PM
I'm sure the 2008 Kawasaki zx14 will not have 'flies'...if you want to be King you must not be too modest with your power..they got away with it this time[thanks for the easy mods guys] but we the people buying the state of the art need nothing but your best work...
posted August 10, 2006 03:42 AM
Then you would be wrong...and the fact is, most people who buy this bike will not even know about them and will have no issue. ____________
FYYFF!!!
posted August 10, 2006 12:50 PM
So was the whole deal about "your bike will run lean and you'll hole your pistons" just a bunch of Killjoys running amok with respect to removing the Flys?
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'03 Mille Silver - ZX-14 Blue
quote:So was the whole deal about "your bike will run lean and you'll hole your pistons" just a bunch of Killjoys running amok with respect to removing the Flys?
No. You need a Power Commander to add a bunch of fuel in the lower part of the powerband. The dyno charts show a very lean spot at about 3500 rpm. Do not remove the flies without a PC and correct map. It will eventually end in tears.
With a PC a map and no flies hang on tight. I hope some one comes up with an electronic fix someday. Possibly after another year of bikes sold there will be enough to entice some software boffins to put on their lab coats and make some $$ for finding a software solution.
With the electronic fix you could turn on and off the secondaries depending on the situation.
____________
Speed has never killed anyone,
suddenly becoming stationary...
That's what gets you.
posted August 11, 2006 05:14 AM
Dont know about you, but I'd never want to have those flies in again, software or not...no need far as I can see...
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FYYFF!!!
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posted August 06, 2006 04:54 AM
Edited By: 
