fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted September 16, 2005 10:39 AM
Please tell Kawasaki what you wanted...
Post 'em up here...
For the most part, global reaction seems to be "disappointment", even though no one here has even seen the bike in person let alone had a chance to ride the thing....
So... Let's post up what people wanted and didnt get, and why everyone feels so strongly about this bike...
Since the 14 section of the site is now open, I'm gonna mirror this topic into both the 12 and 14 forums..
Try to be polite! They really do read the site..
   
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted September 16, 2005 10:43 AM
the Big Motor!! Hell Yea!!! but man put it into a Race Bike not a touring bike....
Take your ZX6R Design and throw a 1400cc motor into it and I will be first in line!!
it has to not only be fast it has to look mean/good. not retro.... If I wanted a retro bike I would buy a Triumph.... thanks...
Mad Mike Harris
call me if you want help with a new Design!!
Fish has my #.
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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brain
Expert Class
Posts: 136
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posted September 16, 2005 11:31 AM
Motor,im guessing is great,frontal area,awesome,brakes,great.This painting started as a masterpiece and the artist had a stroke.What the hell happened to my used to be next bike.All we wanted was more motor and this is what we got.We loved the 12 for what it was,a sport bike for bigger guys that did everything extremly well and was the cats ass in looks.How does an entire design team miss the target audience this far?I guess you hope history will repeat itself,slap a monster motor in it,call it the fastest bike ever made blah blah blah.Now if you can just get the magazins to go along and spread the gossiple how this thing eats busa for lunch the looks wont matter cause then you have the poser and bling bling crowd.Wait a minute,maybe you guys didnt miss your target audience at all.
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Outsiderzx12r
Zone Head
Street Racer
Posts: 841
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posted September 16, 2005 11:31 AM
I do not like the idea of a hydraulic clutch.
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OutsiderZX12R
2000 ZX12R-A1
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herk
Expert Class
Posts: 177
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posted September 16, 2005 11:33 AM
It has the styling of a AMC gremlin. Too radical for the times. Did you guys even do a market study? The platform may be great, but it IS UGLY as hell. The hayabusa has a sexier appeal than this
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Revenge is the oldest motivation known to man
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gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 16, 2005 11:39 AM
Herk..............Been eating at Outback lately???
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Zammy
Expert Class
Posts: 411
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posted September 16, 2005 12:03 PM
I'm sorry to be the odd ball about it but I don't see anyting wrong with it . I also pity anyone who has alowed a Buttuglybusa to start lookin' good without at least a six pac in'em. However, beauty IS in the eye of the beerholder.
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted September 16, 2005 12:04 PM
A strong strong strong clutch based off something like the ZX11 clutch. Pretty much you can't fucking kill that thing..
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted September 16, 2005 12:05 PM
Personally, I'd have wanted a leaner, meaner machine with a stronger motor... in terms of sales and functionality to most buyers I can't disagree with the path chosen however. Appearance-wise, the strakes, the dull or flat black lowers and panel that the strakes are on, and the rearmost part of the lowers (near the rear tire) are all mistakes, I am pretty strongly convinced.
The choice of tail section and seat is going to turn off ZX-12R owners and other Ninja owners. They are functional for a passenger so I understand the reason. ZRX owners and ZZR owners are very happy with the design, it seems. But ZRX's and ZZR's have sold far fewer bikes then Ninja designs have, so the design may appeal to a too-limited sector.
All that said, if the bike breaks 200 with the limiter removed, breaks into the 8's with a professional rider and stock motor, and time proves the bike handles every bit as well as the ZX-12R, then I expect the complainers will become buyers and the bike will be successful despite some needless aesthetic problems (particularly the strakes.)
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gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 16, 2005 12:09 PM
You mean the George Foreman Grills running down both sides right?
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Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted September 16, 2005 12:26 PM
DAYUM!!!!!!!!!!
quote:
You mean the George Foreman Grills running down both sides right?
Not the George Foreman Grills!!! LMFAO!!!!! Maybe those sections can be removed and somebody will come up with a CF insert that looks better. Hell it couldn't look any worse. 
I wish that Kawasaki would have kept with the theme of the 12R, sort of an open class GT. The 12R is not as focused as a pure sportbike, but it does a damned fine job in capable hands. All I wanted was a leaner and meaner 12R which could've been done. I could give a fuck less if it was a better dragbike or not. There is plenty of aftermarket support to turn a perfectly good bike into a dragbike if that's what you want.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted September 16, 2005 12:34 PM
 Edited By: trenace on 16 Sep 2005 13:34
One's gotta consider... why did the ZX-12R sell no better than pigfat-based suntan lotion in Osama bin Laden's cave? (Man that metaphor sucks.)
Because the mags never declared it the WINNER of anything. (Not the US mags anyway).
It's a fact, no matter how meaningless the "win" (including statistically insignificant wins: if you ran a different pair of bikes or did another series of the small number of runs you could well get the reverse result when talking about hundredths of a sec or talking about just 1 or 2 mph) the wins sell bikes via the magazines. Bigtime.
You are absolutely right on the actual value to most buyers of the improved 1/4 mile times, if they're improved (which they probably are.)
You'd be absolutely right on top speed too.
However, would "wins" in those categories sell bikes?
By the shipload.
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OutsiderZX12R
Zone Head
Street Racer
Posts: 841
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posted September 16, 2005 01:44 PM
quote:
One's gotta consider... why did the ZX-12R sell no better than pigfat-based suntan lotion in Osama bin Laden's cave? (Man that metaphor sucks.)
I believe the bikes were detuned before they were released to the public. I don't believe the story that Kawasaki fed the public when they delayed the delivery date in 2000. If the 12 had smoked the Bugly in 2000, they would have been alot better selling bike. Since it didn't live up to the hype, well y'all know the rest.....
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OutsiderZX12R
2000 ZX12R-A1
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blueford
Needs a job
Posts: 2984
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posted September 16, 2005 02:09 PM
Dear Santa,
Please send one 200lb motorcycle with a gas turbine engine with 275 SHP and looks to die for.
May be a cross between a F-22 Raptor and a Catherine Zeta-Jones clone.
And I would love it, if it cooked and gave blow jobs, and please keep the price under 10 grand,
Actually, do I have to pay for it? 
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted September 16, 2005 02:12 PM
Edited By: trenace on 16 Sep 2005 15:19
An 8-second quarter mile with stock motor and stock wheelbase by a Ricky Gadson or comparable rider would do a lot to have the magazines hyperventilating for their readers.
As would a near-200 or even over 200 run with a wire bypassed or whatever.
Also, considerably better 1/4 mile times by the magazine's own testers would do a lot for sales. The extra torque down quite low will make more of a difference for them (possibly quite a bit) than it does for a pro (none if the run is perfect.)
So there's the potential of such performance edges knocking the sales way up.
If they DON'T happen than Kawasaki can look "forward" to sales no better than the 12's. (Adding in ZZR sales and ZRX sales even assuming every single one of those riders flocked to this bike would hardly change that, those were low sellers too.)
Interesting that Kawasaki did NOT choose the easy route, as Suzuki did, for dragstrip honors by pushing the wheelbase near 60".
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MAXIMUS
Needs a job
Posts: 4156
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posted September 16, 2005 02:14 PM
I guess we all expected a sport bike and instead we got a cruiser, the motor size is great, but the look has to go. Especially the dual exhaust. Its reminds me of a BMW. We need a sporter meaner looking bike.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted September 16, 2005 02:27 PM
I look at that bike and the first word that comes to mind is "comfort" or "Touring"
When instead...the replacement for the ZX12R should only have one thing on everyones mind that looks at it:
"Stupid Fast"
Im sorry...but that is no replacement for the ZX12R IMO...its just blurring the line between the ZZR and ZX models.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
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posted September 16, 2005 03:14 PM
Take a ZX12R.
Put in a 1400cc or larger motor.
Make it lighter.
Leave the 1980's strakes off, keep them off the damn bike!.
Keep the 12 tail section, it was perfect. The 1400 tail section looks like it came from the 1990 ZX11! That's 15 years ago! Make it leaner if anything.
Dual pipes is O.K. as long as it gets rid of the bazooka pumpkin launcher hanging off the stock 12.
6 Headlights? Give me a break!
Make sure it can handle at least as good as the 12.
That's my ZX14R or ZX15R.
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CBR1000RR
Best Literbike: Performance Bikes, Superbike, BIKE, MCN, Road Racing World, and Motorcycle USA
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238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
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posted September 16, 2005 03:19 PM
1352 is NOT 1400...
That's like telling your date you got a 10" dick, and then giving her 6 at party time...
Kawasaki achieved the impossible... they actually made a bike that is UGLIER than a Busa!
Retro styling IS NOT cutting edge on bikes... take that 1980 crap and shove it up your
Japanese ASS...
On a slightly more positive note...
They could have done it like a Yamaha... offer a base frame that you can select different
wheels, tail, and fairing... build your own... Yamaha is doing that with it's cruiser line and
is doing really well with that type of program.
NEXT TIME KAWASAKI... ASK US WHAT THE FUCK WE WANT BEFORE YOU BUILD SOME
UGLY ASS PIECE SHIT OF TOTAL TRASH.... 
Fish, was I polite enough????
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gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 16, 2005 03:19 PM
quote:
Dear Santa,
Please send one 200lb motorcycle with a gas turbine engine with 275 SHP and looks to die for.
May be a cross between a F-22 Raptor and a Catherine Zeta-Jones clone.
And I would love it, if it cooked and gave blow jobs, and please keep the price under 10 grand,
Actually, do I have to pay for it?
Jet you've finally said something I completely agree with
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jimzx9r
Expert Class
Posts: 451
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posted September 16, 2005 03:20 PM
I was always hoping for a busa killer...but I never thought it would look like that. What I really wanted was a longer, slightly fatter 10R with a stupid powerful motor. The tail and side strakes are god awful. It looks like the BMW tourers where the side fairings wrap over the frame and connect to the tank. I don't see why they couldn't have changed the tail section for the U.S bike...instead they leave it with a 1989 banana seat. The bike only looks halfway decent when a rider is on it, covering most of the hideousness up. If this bike rips mid 9s stock with a magazine monkey on it...then I will buy it. If it's just like the busa and gets stuck in the high 9 low 10 range...no thanks. I'm worried that this bike isn't even going to dyno much higher than the 12R...it is only 150some ccs larger...and it has to be heavier than the 12R since they didn't claim that it was lighter anywhere.
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted September 16, 2005 03:39 PM
Take the 04/05 ZX10R, and make a ZX12r out of it.......keep that frame, and give it 200cc's more. Raise the bars about an inch.....GIVE IT A ANALOG TACH, and get rid of the crap digital one. Use a gel seat, change the angles of the bars slightly so they downt points down quite as much, (kinda like vortex clipons). Give it a double buble windsheild from the factory, someting other than the 150 lbs riders of the AMA can get behind. And give it a slightly larger tank for a longer cruising range, 5.5 gallons or so.
Do that and I am the first in line.......
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted September 16, 2005 04:01 PM
Jeezus HDL.... why dont you just buy a wheelchair you pussy!
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted September 16, 2005 05:22 PM
Edited By: CrotchRocket on 16 Sep 2005 18:27
I wanted a ZX that would be good for DragRacing and able to be faster than the Busa at all RPMs...
It seems that Kawasaki made the ZX14 to beat the Busa, being similar in ways...We will see when its released to the public...
As of now in pictures its not the best looking but reminds me of the ZX11 too...The 11 is better looking...Maybe in person it will look more appealing...
I am keeping an open mind here...I always liked Kawasakis!!!...Had a suzuki once but hated it...So I'm waiting to see it in person!!!...The Blue is the best color!!!
I do know that if the performance of the ZX14 is awesome, most of us will buy it anyway!!! 
Hey Fish and Extremelean, I will gladly test the ZX14 and do my best to get a few low ETs...
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted September 16, 2005 05:56 PM
I am not sure why they only went 1mm more stroke than the 1999 designed suzuki? Why would I currently buy a 1352 (smaller than a $2000.00 1375 kit) only to be beat by the thousands of 1500cc busa's "RIDING" around all ready. Buying one at this moment would put me BACK into no man's land for support and aftermarket products. I may not own a suzuki yet, but I do know that I can go and basically built a bike from scratch using aftermarket parts like a Harley, because there is SOOO MUCCCHHH SUPPORTTTT!!!!! And with that support, because of the engine design, It can be SOOOOO MUUCHHH BIGGGGER!!!!!!
I owned a zx11 and I feel that this looks like the bike I sold to MOVE FORWARD to buy a zx12.
Why not offer some aftermarket RACE STYLE fairings that we can change out.
Other, than that, looking at the overlay of Trenance, this is the same bike with a bigger stroke. I hope the bottom cases have been redesigned to also be a bit wider and longer to make enough room to really build the bike to compete with suzuki in the "AFTERMARKET" not just showroom stock, as few busa's in my world stay that very long.
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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