tigger
Expert Class
Posts: 199
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posted August 27, 2006 10:59 AM
Lost 9 horses at the dyno...
I took my 10 to the dyno this weekend and I lost 9 horses from the last time I took it. My bike was customed tuned last Feb. and I was putting out 165.52@81ftpds. The weather this time was 11 degrees warmer, the humidity was higher. The tech told me that I probably sprayed too much oil on my BMC filter. He also added that I'm now using a heavier sport touring compound (Stradas);might need valve adjustment; might need new plugs. My biggest concern was the oil in the filter, so I cleaned it right away and sprayed just a little bit of oil on it. I'm not gonna do the valve until 16.000 miles. My bike has 12,300 right now. What do you guys think if you loose 9 hps on the same conditions?
Current hp: 156.71 @ 77ftpds SAE 88 degrees F 20% humidity w/ DStradas 87 octane
Old hp : 165.52 @81 ftpds SAE 77 degress F 8% humidity w/ Dunlop 218s 91 octane
05' 10 with PCIIIusb, block off emissions plate, BMC filter, IXIL dual exhaust slipons, custom mapping.
  
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted August 27, 2006 11:53 AM
Of course your going to have power loss in the extreme heat and humidity...
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted August 27, 2006 12:05 PM
on the same dyno? same HP unit (std/sae) and smoothing? chain can count for a few HP too.
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 27, 2006 01:19 PM
quote:
Of course your going to have power loss in the extreme heat and humidity...
Yea BUT the correction factor should bring all that back into perspective.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted August 27, 2006 01:42 PM
Not to make a debate, but there is no correction factor on the DragStrip!!!
I am using the DragStrip as an example because it's clear on the time slip when in 55 degree weather my ZX12 runs high to low 9.20s from 150-153mph...Then in 85+ degree weather I run mid 9.30s to 9.40s 147 to 149 that heat sure does pull that motor down and make it hard to ride...Thats with using the same gearing all year on a 60inch wheelbase, stock motor, Akrapovic, stock air fliters, no power commander, foot shifting!!!
I never blamed the bike on the power loss...I blamed the heat and me...So, I made it a point in learning to ride the 12 in the extreme heat and adjusting my throttle and clutch control...Then when it gets colder, I have to start over again 
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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tigger
Expert Class
Posts: 199
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posted August 27, 2006 02:06 PM
quote:
on the same dyno? same HP unit (std/sae) and smoothing? chain can count for a few HP too.
Yup! same dyno. The technician checked the chain before and after the run. He said it looked good. He said that the bike is running rich maybe due to the too much oil on the BMC filter. He also suggests a valve adjustment, and that kawasaki's needs them earlier than the recommended intervals. They use SAE when he flipped it to STANDARD It was 5 horses higher. Both runs were SAE.
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted August 27, 2006 06:10 PM
The filter could make the difference you are talking about, but 11 is quite a bit. It would be OK to check the valves and only adjust any tight ones and leave the loose ones until 16000. There would have to be some pretty tight valves to effect the HP that much. Remember that the valves beat themselves into the seats and the clearance drops. The dyno will adjust the numbers to compensate for heat, humidity, altitude etc. I am wondering if it may be a combination of things. My 10 has 12000 also and I have noticed lately that the engine is becoming noisier, it sounds like my cam chain is loose. So that could be one issue. I am also starting to think the injectors may need a cleaning. My seat of the pants dyno has always felt that the 10 could use another 20 or so HP.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted August 27, 2006 10:33 PM
I would think there is something amiss. I tuned my 10 in the cool weather a year ago got 157.5hp. Ran it untuned this year & it was 4 hp up & that was in 100+degrees & stupid humidity.Tuned it for no flies & MR9 got 168hp in that same heat w/ a beat clutch to boot.
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tigger
Expert Class
Posts: 199
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posted August 27, 2006 11:34 PM
quote:
The filter could make the difference you are talking about, but 11 is quite a bit. It would be OK to check the valves and only adjust any tight ones and leave the loose ones until 16000. There would have to be some pretty tight valves to effect the HP that much. Remember that the valves beat themselves into the seats and the clearance drops. The dyno will adjust the numbers to compensate for heat, humidity, altitude etc. I am wondering if it may be a combination of things. My 10 has 12000 also and I have noticed lately that the engine is becoming noisier, it sounds like my cam chain is loose. So that could be one issue. I am also starting to think the injectors may need a cleaning. My seat of the pants dyno has always felt that the 10 could use another 20 or so HP.
You made a good valid point about the valves. My bike started to get louder too. I think I would bring it in for the valve service. Do you recommend the tuners or the dealer to do the adjustments?
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tigger
Expert Class
Posts: 199
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posted August 27, 2006 11:37 PM
quote:
I would think there is something amiss. I tuned my 10 in the cool weather a year ago got 157.5hp. Ran it untuned this year & it was 4 hp up & that was in 100+degrees & stupid humidity.Tuned it for no flies & MR9 got 168hp in that same heat w/ a beat clutch to boot.
Man! I should have never brought my bike back to the dyno.lol
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted August 28, 2006 06:26 AM
Loud Kawi Valves are on the Loose side of spec. Tight side of spec. is bad and valves may not close 100% tight when warmed up. I keep compression test #'s for reference. If you do that, you also want to note weather conditions when testing.
After 10K miles, I would recommend a full tune up. Every lttle thing adds up!
New Plugs, Clean or new filter, Cam Chain tenstion, valve clearance check AND like TedG indicated....Injector Service.
I have had two sets serviced in the last 4 years and both times I have seen some of the injectors flow rate drop off 5-10%. I also have noticed that Good Fuel (Cheveron w/ Techron) helps keep all these components happier.
RC Engineering does GREAT work!
Happy Tuning!
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted August 28, 2006 09:45 AM
You can actually lose some hp by switching to 91 octane fuel, 87 makes more hp unless you really have high compression. probably not 9 hp. but 1 or 2 here and there add up fast.
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Big Daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
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posted August 28, 2006 05:30 PM
quote:
The filter could make the difference you are talking about, but 11 is quite a bit. It would be OK to check the valves and only adjust any tight ones and leave the loose ones until 16000. There would have to be some pretty tight valves to effect the HP that much. Remember that the valves beat themselves into the seats and the clearance drops. The dyno will adjust the numbers to compensate for heat, humidity, altitude etc. I am wondering if it may be a combination of things. My 10 has 12000 also and I have noticed lately that the engine is becoming noisier, it sounds like my cam chain is loose. So that could be one issue. I am also starting to think the injectors may need a cleaning. My seat of the pants dyno has always felt that the 10 could use another 20 or so HP.
the cam chain my be a bit noisy because the auto adjustment hasn't clicked so until it does the noise will continue and maybe a TB sync is in order.
BD
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted August 28, 2006 08:41 PM
I also noticed that the thing seemed noisier when I switched to full syn oil.
tigger, The dealer should be able to do a respectable job, that is if they aren't a bunch of A holes. Try to get someone with a decent reputation. It is important they have a collection of the proper valve shims. If they don't you can be sure they will be tempted to use the next smaller or larger shim so that they don't have to go order some. Leaving some valves tight or loose.
I just buy a selection of shims and do it myself, that way I know it is done properly.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
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posted August 28, 2006 09:27 PM
oil weight, tire type & pressure, gearing, chain alignment and slack, stretched throttle cable, valve clearance, air filter, plugs, fuel injectors, fuel quality, ambient temp and humidity, ... all could be contributing
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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tigger
Expert Class
Posts: 199
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posted August 29, 2006 12:20 PM
quote:
I also noticed that the thing seemed noisier when I switched to full syn oil.
tigger, The dealer should be able to do a respectable job, that is if they aren't a bunch of A holes. Try to get someone with a decent reputation. It is important they have a collection of the proper valve shims. If they don't you can be sure they will be tempted to use the next smaller or larger shim so that they don't have to go order some. Leaving some valves tight or loose.
I just buy a selection of shims and do it myself, that way I know it is done properly.
How much does the set cost? and where is the best place to buy them. I do work on KLR 650s, 250s I have'nt opened a 10R I'm not sure if our shims would be the same size being the same Kawasaki brand.
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted August 29, 2006 08:08 PM
Well shims are expensive, ususally they swap them out. They changed the thicknesses for the 10, I had bought a selection for the 12, I think I spent about 100 bucks.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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