GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted July 05, 2006 10:10 PM
 Edited By: GUNNER on 5 Jul 2006 23:15
Pump fuel? And do you have a TRE? If you don't have the TRE than yes you will see a gain across the board. I'm NOT promoting Ivan or his TRE device. All I'm saying is there's NO gain between having the flies out and a bike that has a TRE. At least where the 10 is concerned. What's your torque number? And does that 18% carry over to the torque as well as Hp number?
  
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 05, 2006 10:21 PM
quote:
The map & before-after Dyno charts are in fish-Antlers e-mail! I picked up more hp on peak #'s also this could just be due to about 1800 miles more on the engine than when 1st tuned
Real quick #'s Tuned w/ flies 159.5 HP -76.5 TQ
Untuned No Flies 161.5 HP -76.7 TQ
Tuned No Flies 165.6 HP -78.7 TQ
There is an approx. 8% pick in HP & TQ at 3600 rpm FT.
There is a 20% loss of HP & TQ at about 2200 rpm FT but to be honest that is not a usable area. I can't recall ever doing FT roll-on's at 2K.
I have no TRE on my 10. I use a DynoJet Dyno, not the Factory Pro. I posted all my #'s earlier.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 05, 2006 10:22 PM
The 10 has a Akro F/S, BMC Street Filter , No Flies & Custom tuned map.
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted July 05, 2006 10:44 PM
Edited By: GUNNER on 5 Jul 2006 23:51
zx1kr...................Your numbers seem correct and I'm NOT saying different, BUT if you look at that chart from the other guy with 85 ft pounds of torque that number don't add up AT ALL!  Unless he had the head milled a ton and cranking pressure out the roof. In which case brings up the question of race fuel. If that's the case those numbers won't apply to most the guys on here that think they can pull their butterflies and see numbers like that. I post exactly what's done to my bike and numbers achieved on pump fuel. Numbers achieved from U4 or MR9 don't interest me at all because I can't get that down at the corner gas station.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 06, 2006 08:46 AM
Edited By: zx1kr on 6 Jul 2006 09:47
I agree. I got the numbers I posted w/ 89 octane pump fuel.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 06, 2006 09:19 AM
quote:
Cool... Thanks for your work zx1kr. What was the target a/f with the map? Was this with a Dynojet tuning link?
I wanna go out and try it out now... COME ON FISSSSH!!!!
I've e-mailed the Dyno Charts & No Flies Map to Ya! Post the charts for me thanks!
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Rspec99
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted July 06, 2006 11:23 AM
Edited By: Rspec99 on 6 Jul 2006 12:24
Thanks... I am working on hosting it now...
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Rspec99
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted July 06, 2006 04:41 PM
Edited By: Rspec99 on 6 Jul 2006 17:45
Here are the plots and map... Thanks again zx1kr for your work and for sharing...
Dyno Plot #1: Mapped ZX-10R with secondaries in place.
Dyno Plot #2 & 3: Comparison mapped and unmapped ZX-10R with secondaries removed.
Here is the link to the map:
http://members.shaw.ca/rspec99/ZX10NOFLIES.djm
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cptcrunch
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted July 07, 2006 03:49 AM
Edited By: cptcrunch on 7 Jul 2006 04:51
Ok I rode my 06-10 for the first time with the flies back in it lastnight , cant say I care much for it , so today I am going to take them back out and download and install this new map.
Do I need to do any tweeking or is everyone doing better with the map. I got my new packing in my T-bros so I am ready to go
 
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 07, 2006 05:53 AM
Now, I want to make clear that this map is for the 04-05 ZX10 . The 2006 ZX10 has a different injection set-up. I don't recommend trying to install this map into the 06 w/o the use of a Dyno to confirm the results. I have an 06 ZX10 lined up to be dynoed as soon as Muzzy's new M-10 Pipe arrives at the shop for it. It will be a "no flies" map. I will make it available when completed.
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cptcrunch
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted July 07, 2006 07:23 AM
OK I will wait till you get the map for the 06 done and then I will take them back out and try again,, thanks zx1kr
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 07, 2006 11:47 AM
No Problem.
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted July 07, 2006 03:26 PM
Nice work...zx1kr!!
.from earlier comments I surmize a guy can travel and ride the 10R (2004) with no flies at little risk of a dangerous lean condition as found on the ZX-14 ?
Reason I ask is because my tuner and dyno are 300 miles away....about 5 hours travel..
Thanks again for your work...
ya ought to get at least a free t-shirt.....
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Salsa1
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 07, 2006 09:02 PM
Well thanks, appreciate the gratitude! I don't offer the maps & info for anything more than the satisfaction of knowing I'm helping out a fellow rider. If in turn , they see fit to send some of their business my way so be it. But, if not well that's OK too. I will continue to offer up all that I can to insure that my ride & in turn your ride too, performs to it's optimum!
Again, thanks for appreciating my time invested!
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 08, 2006 02:51 PM
Just had a 2006 ZX10 w/no flies on the dyno today. The 06 had a nice bump in TQ & HP as opposed to my 04 ZX10. There was a 8HP & 9TQ diff between 4 & 5.5K FT in the 06's favor.Peak HP for the 06 was 161 as opposed to 166HP for my 04. These diff. could just be exhaust related. 06 had stock exhaust w/cats out & no air cleaner, 04 had BMC & EVO II Full Ti akropovic. Nice bike that 06 ZX10 feels narrower & very 636 like. Cant wait to get it up on the dyno w/ a pipe installed. Will post chart after I get the green lite from bike's owner. Also will be tuning an 06 W/Two Bros. Slip-on. Will be doing Before & after w/ & w/o the Flies.
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dewayne4sho
Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
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posted July 08, 2006 09:12 PM
what's up guys im new to forum and a zx10'r 4 life. question respec99 i can't get the link to pull up for the map for the no flies custom im getting a blue shaw home web page what additional info do i need?
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Rspec99
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted July 08, 2006 11:38 PM
Tried out the map today and it was much improved from the map I was running. I am getting a little bit more backfiring than usual, but the throttle response is just superb. Thanks zx1kr!
Quick question for you though, was the a/f ratio done with the AIS/PAIR (KLEEN) system disabled? The top end on the map just seems a lot richer than the other maps that I have seen for the ZX-10R.
dewayne, sorry. I fixed the link to the map. It should be fine now.
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dewayne4sho
Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
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posted July 09, 2006 12:08 AM
im still running my stock exhaust will this map have compatability in about a week or so i'll have a new muzzy sidewinder installed looking for good feedback
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 09, 2006 08:21 AM
quote:
Tried out the map today and it was much improved from the map I was running. I am getting a little bit more backfiring than usual, but the throttle response is just superb. Thanks zx1kr!
Quick question for you though, was the a/f ratio done with the AIS/PAIR (KLEEN) system disabled? The top end on the map just seems a lot richer than the other maps that I have seen for the ZX-10R.
dewayne, sorry. I fixed the link to the map. It should be fine now.
Block off plates installed! As far as tuning the full thottle top-end, I basically tune for optimum HP and after that is acheived I add a small % to compensate for ram-air.
If you feel it's alittle rich pull 3 to 5% off the 100% over say 6K & see how she feels then. 1 more thing , Do you have the same set-up as me? If not there is good chance you wont be optimized, though you should be safe.
If you check my charts, they aren't overly rich. Pull alittle out. No more than 5% at a time though w/o a Dyno & AFR moniter.
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Rspec99
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted July 10, 2006 01:28 PM
Yes I have a pretty close set up to you, same Akra EVO2 with the exception being that I am running a K&N filter instead of the BMC.
You are absolutely right, your a/f charts really are not rich at all. I am surprised because I have seen some custom maps for the ZX-10R's and they are taking away fuel at the top end, while the Akra maps seem to be adding fuel. I guess pipe design does make some difference here.
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 10, 2006 08:37 PM
Also, The end result is , I tune for HP on FT. I find the peak #'s & then I compensate for Ram Air(I add a small% of fuel).
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted July 11, 2006 02:14 AM
I removed the flies on my 10R over 2 months ago...the bike has a full Brock TI setup and it's making almost 163 RWHP/ 80RWTQ. It was custom mapped on the Dyno 3 months ago. Sunday, I rode with an 06 10R (stock) and a K6 (full yosh). I had no issue rolling on with both bikes in all the gears and beating them hands down every single time. With the flies removed, the bike pulls very hard from 4.5K up when properly mapped and never skips a beat. It was a great mod. The bike's a monster; with the flies removed, it out pulls my 14. (flies in) 
One more thing...when you map these things on the Dyno, the airbox pressure sensor won't compensate for the ram air effect, but obviously it will in the street The ram air only has an effect at speed, not at high RPM's in the lower gears, so I would think that adding fuel at the high end of the spectrum would only make it run too rich when ram air kicks in. Just my .02 worth. The removal of the throttle plates on this bike won't produce as drastic an effect as it does on the 14, probably because they do open well before 7k, but there's no question about it...they do have a pronounced positive effect on this bike.
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FYYFF!!!
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 11, 2006 01:18 PM
I can't give ya all the tuning secret's but, trust me on this. If you add say 3% more fuel (after tuning to optimum power on dyno) to your 100% TP at an RPM w/ the bike going over 100mph you will have more power in the real world & it won't be rich. Trust me, this is what I do all day long!
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Rspec99
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted July 12, 2006 01:04 PM
Well, whatever your secrets are, they seem to agree with my 10R. The throttle feels really smooth and connected. The top end also seems to pack a might wallop. Thanks again...
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zx1kr
Pro
Posts: 1301
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posted July 12, 2006 07:04 PM
quote:
Well, whatever your secrets are, they seem to agree with my 10R. The throttle feels really smooth and connected. The top end also seems to pack a might wallop. Thanks again...
And that my friend is what it's all about!
Thanks & enjoy!
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