redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted June 22, 2006 09:38 PM
Too broke. Spent all my money on getting the Traxxion/Penske suspension for my 10R.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
   
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted June 22, 2006 09:51 PM
btw i'm totally pleased with my 10R right now... it feels awesome.. in top form! I was thinking about you and that "first ride" just the other day!
good memories!
You hittin' Laguna again this year?
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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joema
Parking Attendant
Posts: 1
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posted June 23, 2006 03:56 AM
All detectors have the same fundamental weakness -- they're little protection against moving instant-on radar on a twisty road (the kind sport bikers like). On the interstate with moderate traffic, a detector helps a lot. But who likes the interstate on a sport bike?
On low-traffic twisty roads, you meet an oncoming LEO who pops you with instant on, and no detector will help you, regardless of arrows, sensitivity, etc. This is the most common type of encounter I see in that circumstance.
IMO, this fundamental problem swamps all the relatively minor differences between detectors.
In that case, the main benefit of a detector is simply knowing WHETHER he zapped you, not the early warning (of which there's none).
Instant on does require they see you and physically press a switch. If you're upright and alert, sometimes you can see them and slow down in the 1 sec period, sort of like an old west "quick draw" situation.
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted June 23, 2006 04:16 AM
in cases like this it pays to stick to the 110% rule.
However if there is any other traffic you will catch intermittant detections and get some warning that something ain't right. In middle of the woods, even a short hit would get me to the 10% over rule REALLY quickly. Around here the roads are tight enough that in most cases fun can be had within a reasonable amount of the posted limit.
I've ridden with folks that had V1 detectors, and that thing was incredible and saved our hides so many times it wasn't funny.
  
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted June 23, 2006 04:40 AM
quote:
All detectors have the same fundamental weakness -- they're little protection against moving instant-on radar on a twisty road (the kind sport bikers like). On the interstate with moderate traffic, a detector helps a lot. But who likes the interstate on a sport bike?
Good point, BUT, most LEO's are lazy and leave their radar guns on all the time. Especially the LEO's that work out in the country. But then, even if they were using instant-on, if you have a high quality radar detector with the best range (like the ones reviewed), you have a very high chance of picking up your LEO shooting someone else a mile or two down the road.
Sure, it's all up to the technique that the LEO uses, but nearly every back-road journey I've ever taken, especially those with any curves on them, I've found that the LEO's just leave their guns on all the time. They are usually small-town yokels who don't run into "professional speeders" like us, so they aren't just sitting in "wait" mode with their finger on the button.
Texas DPS, on the other hand, loves to use instant-on and POP. But, lucky for me, they don't often venture off their favorite interstates, so I seldom run into them.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted June 23, 2006 06:11 AM
 Edited By: redelk on 23 Jun 2006 07:13
Joema is so right. Arkansas rural county deputies and some state troopers around here just love their instant on Ka units and have become very good at using them. Thus, a detector alone is not enough to prevent a ticket and the differences between the three quickly become moot.
Because I am constantly moving it from vehicle to bike to vehicle, the detector's durability in "drop tests" does become an issue. No matter how careful I am, over the five years I had my V1, it has made a few (okay... more then a "few") unexpected "contacts with Terra Firma". Have a detector that is "redelk proof" will always be one of the criteria of any future detector purchase.
fish, I won't be JW and I won't be going to Laguna this year. It conflicts with our racing season and neither of us can really afford it. he last trip out there nearly broke me financially. I eventually had to get a bank loan after I got back, just so I could keep from getting too far behind on my bills.
Funny thing about our 04 10Rs is the directions you and I have gone to improve our bikes. I find that the Brembo/Traxxxion/Penske was the best mods I have ever done to a bike I have owned. I don't have a PCIII and really don't plan on getting one. Unlike my '00 12R, which REALLY needed one, I don't see where my 10R NEEDS on. Though I am sure it would be a nice edition, but hardly worth it IMHO.
On my 12R, I eventually learned that "stock" maps and maps from others with similar mods do not take full advantage of the PCIII. For a while, I ran a custom map from someone who's bike had the exact same mods my bike had. It ran like shit on my bike while he was getting over 190 RWHP on his (same dyno/operator). Making "minor tweaks" via laptop was a hit or miss situation at best.
Felling that getting a custom map is the only way to go, pretty well rules out getting a PCIII for me.Though a PCIII is not that expensive, get a custom map done locally does almost double the cost. That is if I could get one done locally. For me, getting a custom map done is a minimum of a 600 mile round trip. With that being the case, the total cost of a PCIII starts to easily rival the cost of the suspension mods.
Your roads up there might be glass smooth (for the most part), but here, it is a mixed bag. Since I had the choice of one or the other (suspension vs. PCIII)... not both, it really was no choice at all. "More" or "smoother" power delivery is something I don't need with my 10R. The bike has plenty of power and it's delivery is without a "hit" or "dip". I even took the 16T sprocket off and put the 17T back on while installing the new suspension.
What I did need and what I got was a bike that was a light year's improvement in a confidence inspiring planted feel. I have ridden 10Rs with PCIIIs and even one with a custom map. They were nice and the difference is noticeable. Albeit minor at best. I'm sure it would be even more apparent with the butterflies removed, but it wold again require a remap to take full advantage of it. Another expense that for me, would more then cover the cost of my Brembo, Gafler Superbike lines and Vortex adjustable rearsets.
That takes me back to my original point. More power for my bike is really worthless if I can't put it to the ground in a "planted" manner. I won't argue on which is better when it comes to suspension/brakes vs PCIII. Each to their own. For me, one would be a minor improvement and one was major. Being on a limited budget, I can't have it all, but what I got was enough to convince me that getting a '06 for it's suspension improvement a moot point. That's something I would not get if I had got a PCIII.
BTW - I just sent a copy of my story of "the ride" to someone last week.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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dbeadling
Zone Head
Posts: 699
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posted June 23, 2006 06:22 AM
bel rx 65 and zx 1400 with a techmount... nothing but the best
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted June 23, 2006 06:32 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 23 Jun 2006 07:35
re : rader (I guess I force myself to stay on subejct) ... I dont believe it is possible for cops to use laser on the tight twisties... nor is it possible for them to use radar... they need a clear straight stretch with a clear line of sight.... as there are lots of LEOs who are members here (and ride like I do I am sure  ... heh heh) one or two or more of you may want to expand on that...
when and where to speed are equally as important as what kinda of radar detector... but that's not the review....
additionally getting "tagged" with laser isn't always total doom. The laser isnt a "laser" beam... it's a wide infre red beam (and the laser is really "lidar" which is yet another acronym... ) and you can catch the edgesof it or over shoot it if a cop is metering someone infront of you or behind you or aiming poorly.
You cant still avoid a ticket by slamming on the brakes in most situations (provided you arent travelling at some bizarre stratospheric speed). Some basic common sense rules apply to speeding and doing it safely. Obviously this has nothing to do with the detectors and which one to purchase, and more to do with how to use them in conjunction with a happy and ticket free riding experience...
people are more than welcome to share their techniques and add them to this topic... I'll start it out with a few of my basics... They've worked for me for years.
1) Never speed in the straights... cops cant get you in the tight stuff, and that's what bikes are made for anyways. Wanna go fast in a straight line? Hit a dragstrip.
2) Never speed in posted "speed zones" ie: contruction, school, playground etc
3) Never speed on the outskirts of rural areas/towns... Say you're on a trip and flying along a small secondary highway... you see that you are getting about 10 - 15miles from the next town. Time to slow down. Now you're in the hunting zone of the local sheriff.
4) Never speed when you're in a small one horse town. Lots of them have stupidly slow speed limits... (like 15mph).... you're like "fuck? who goes 15mph??" bite yer tongue and do the 15mph.. I cant even count how many towns like that we've gone through that have had one or even 2 cruisers radaring to pull over the "out of towners"
.... can't think of any more right now but add 'em in as ya'll see fit!
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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zerMATT
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted June 23, 2006 07:41 AM
quote:
1) Never speed in the straights... cops cant get you in the tight stuff, and that's what bikes are made for anyways. Wanna go fast in a straight line? Hit a dragstrip.
2) Never speed in posted "speed zones" ie: contruction, school, playground etc
3) Never speed on the outskirts of rural areas/towns... Say you're on a trip and flying along a small secondary highway... you see that you are getting about 10 - 15miles from the next town. Time to slow down. Now you're in the hunting zone of the local sheriff.
4) Never speed when you're in a small one horse town. Lots of them have stupidly slow speed limits... (like 15mph).... you're like "fuck? who goes 15mph??" bite yer tongue and do the 15mph.. I cant even count how many towns like that we've gone through that have had one or even 2 cruisers radaring to pull over the "out of towners"
Now there's some sound advice! Especially the slowing down as you're enter those little towns along the way. Groups I ride with pretty much always exceed the speed limit where it's "fun", but we ALWAYS do the posted speed limits near and through towns.
Many of our rides are on Sunday mornings, and most of the rural towns we ride through have a church or two, and we regularly come through town and stop for church-goers to cross the street. It's the polite thing to do, and it keeps the locals from getting pissed off and calling the local constabulary every time they see a sportbike. Now I can't speak for some of the squids who probably ride through those same towns only on their rear tire, but that's how we do it... we try to be nice citizens when possible.
On the few occasions where we have been put into a position to have a "chat" with an LEO, it's usually because a rural resident called in a group of speeding bikes. Sometimes it was us, but many times it was not.... it was a different group. We all ride pretty much the same roads Southwest of DFW for fun, and some of the squids like to scream through town and pass other people on one wheel. That doesn't help any of us. No radar detector in the world will prevent you from being pulled over because of a "complaint" phone call.
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted June 23, 2006 11:33 AM
Hey fish,
Many of us read and respect your reviews. I put my money on a Bel. Thanks for the great info...
As was mentioned in the review (why do we even write these things if peope dont read them!!) at first we thought it was cheesy.... after using it for a bit it became absolutely 100% indespensible.
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted June 23, 2006 02:56 PM
thanks! We are confident people who purchase the Bel will be extremely impressed!
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted June 23, 2006 03:15 PM
They all suck...not one will prevent tickets every time...just ride faster and better so you can run faster when the heat comes down...
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FYYFF!!!
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Ozzy
Needs a job
need guberment cheese
Posts: 3172
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posted June 23, 2006 06:40 PM
fyi: NEW BEL Pro RX65 on ebay for $229 with buy it now
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zx10 guy
Novice Class
Posts: 72
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posted June 24, 2006 07:41 AM
For you guys that want to run radar detectors on your bikes, you should seriously consider this..... http://www.sportvue.com .
I have one of their units sans the radar connection port, the MC1. The MC2 adds the radar port for the audio outs from radar detectors and there are custom harnesses for I think the Bell units. When the HUD unit detects a signal from your radar detector, it flashes RADAR in the HUD unit. No more worries about cords from your helmet to your detector and everything is hidden. Plus you get the added features of not having to look down at your guages. The HUD unit displays speed, RPM, and gear position. Been extremely happy with it and this is probably one of the best mods I've done to the bike.
You can see some details and pics of my install here:
http://zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21287
I'll be updating the thread there with some additional pics of the final install or I might start a new thread. I'll update you all here when that happens.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted June 24, 2006 08:28 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 24 Jun 2006 09:38
zx10guy... thanks for the tip, but we'll save you your typing... we're releasing a full review on that unit in just a few minutes (really!)....
It gets a serious failing grade and we DO NOT recommend it to any of our readership.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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zx10 guy
Novice Class
Posts: 72
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posted June 24, 2006 08:47 AM
Wow. I guess I'll have to wait to see what you've said about the Sportvue HUD. After some initial setup snafus which the support reps have been very good about working with me to correct, I've had no problems with it.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted June 24, 2006 08:51 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 24 Jun 2006 09:52
just you wait! sorry bro.... straight up the thing is crap  wish we could say otherwise but seen too many of our friends get stung now.... hopefully it'll be okay for you...
the review would have been up 2 days ago if freek would've gotten his ass in gear... just doing a quick final check on it now.. be up shortly (within the hour)
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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D
Needs a job
Posts: 3365
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posted June 24, 2006 09:12 AM
I love my Escort 8500 Xfiddy.
I've read mostly negative things bout the Sport Vue thangy - main bitch bein that the display is too dark.
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zx10 guy
Novice Class
Posts: 72
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posted June 24, 2006 09:24 AM
That's wierd. The thing is plenty bright for me. I have it mounted on top of tinted/mirrored visor and see the display no problem.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted June 24, 2006 09:37 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 24 Jun 2006 10:37
brightness ain't da issue my friend...
Click Here for the SportVue review
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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D
Needs a job
Posts: 3365
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posted June 24, 2006 09:58 AM
Well alrighty then.
I watched a buddy of mine install his and I was pretty much WTF? most of the time - watchin the calibration process pretty well sealed it fer me though.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted June 24, 2006 10:05 AM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 24 Jun 2006 12:16
thing about being online is you've gotta be straight up with people cuz if you're not then you'll get called on it... - shit .. even when YOU ARE straight up you still get called on it  ... I hope readers appreciate this in both these reviews... we won't lie to you when we say we found the Bel to be better suited to a bike than the V1, and we wont lie to you about the SportVue sucking...
it's a hard thing to deal with because no one wants to slam anyone but at the same time you're talking about member's hard earned or borrowed cash and we want everyone here to know that we respect that fact. We arent paid for these reviews .
it's a roll of the die for the companies getting reviewed ... sink or float it's up to the product to be accepted by the membership.
It's a fine line to walk and I know lots of people are brand loyal etc, but we want everyone (esp the new members) to know that we are totally straight up and honest about things, and I hope that the SportVue review helps people avoid getting soaked...
After using it I'd put it right on my list of purchase priorities after encrusting my rims in diamonds.
there's way better stuff you can spend your money on.
Hopefully given a few years they'll get their product sorted, but right now it isnt even in the ballpark.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted June 24, 2006 08:32 PM
quote:
All detectors have the same fundamental weakness -- they're little protection against moving instant-on radar on a twisty road (the kind sport bikers like). On the interstate with moderate traffic, a detector helps a lot. But who likes the interstate on a sport bike?
On low-traffic twisty roads, you meet an oncoming LEO who pops you with instant on, and no detector will help you, regardless of arrows, sensitivity, etc. This is the most common type of encounter I see in that circumstance.
IMO, this fundamental problem swamps all the relatively minor differences between detectors.
In that case, the main benefit of a detector is simply knowing WHETHER he zapped you, not the early warning (of which there's none).
Instant on does require they see you and physically press a switch. If you're upright and alert, sometimes you can see them and slow down in the 1 sec period, sort of like an old west "quick draw" situation.
Bzzz. Wrong.
I will preface this with I NEVER speed in residential area's, school zone's or where traffic make's it unsafe.
That being said, you can very successfully beat radar IF you hit the binders hard when you get a lock. I do it all the time.
The problem with radar is it ain't so good at locking in on a rapidly accelerating or rapidly decelerating object. 
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"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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havabusa12r
Expert Class
Posts: 425
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posted June 24, 2006 10:02 PM
quote:
quote:
All detectors have the same fundamental weakness -- they're little protection against moving instant-on radar on a twisty road (the kind sport bikers like). On the interstate with moderate traffic, a detector helps a lot. But who likes the interstate on a sport bike?
On low-traffic twisty roads, you meet an oncoming LEO who pops you with instant on, and no detector will help you, regardless of arrows, sensitivity, etc. This is the most common type of encounter I see in that circumstance.
IMO, this fundamental problem swamps all the relatively minor differences between detectors.
In that case, the main benefit of a detector is simply knowing WHETHER he zapped you, not the early warning (of which there's none).
Instant on does require they see you and physically press a switch. If you're upright and alert, sometimes you can see them and slow down in the 1 sec period, sort of like an old west "quick draw" situation.
Bzzz. Wrong.
I will preface this with I NEVER speed in residential area's, school zone's or where traffic make's it unsafe.
That being said, you can very successfully beat radar IF you hit the binders hard when you get a lock. I do it all the time.
The problem with radar is it ain't so good at locking in on a rapidly accelerating or rapidly decelerating object.
IF you take that to court, the cop will just tell the judge that he also had a VISUAL on you and you hit the brakes due to running a radar detector. He will also brag about his training that allows him to estimate the speed to +/- ? MPH, without the radar.
I've been to court a few times.
They will also mention a SPORT bike with a rider in a CAFE RACER position. I had a hard time NOT laughing at that one. All courts are not the same, some are actually fair 
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(68 Yam 175 2-stroke)
(99 Copper Busa) (99 Duc 900 SS full fairing) (00 MV Agusta F4S) (02 Aprilia RSV Mille) (02 ZX 12r CTB) (03 KTM 950 Adv)
(04 Yam R1) (05 LE Busa) (07 ZX 14)
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted June 26, 2006 07:21 PM
I almost got tagged by instant on this weekend, I was following a slow group of Harleys and cars up to Virginia City and didn't pass anyone over the double yellow line, I waited for the one and only passing zone that is on the only straight going up that hill. So I got there waited for the double yellow to end and pulled out gently to pass, the speed limit was only 45 and I was doing about 60 when my detector screamed at me, too late. The HP was pointing at me and I went a bit farther and waited for him to show up, nothing, So I went further down the road and took off my green jacket and tiptoed into VC and stopped at the last corner and got off, removed my helmet and walked around the corner to see if there was a cop waiting for me. Nothing, so I took an alternate road to the other side of the city, put on my jacket and hauled ass down the truck route. Ruined my day.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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