zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
|
posted October 09, 2005 05:43 PM
ZX10 2nd Impressions vs R1
My girlfriend bought me an R1 a week ago to add to my ZX12 and 954(I'm so lucky), not broken in yet(740miles), have to keep the revs under 8300 rpms til 1000 miles. Rode with EricTheJew and his ZX10 today. We switched bikes and that 10 flat out hauls, it has a motor and a half. I haven't rode my ZX12 in a week and for the past week been luggin the R1 in the rain so getting on the 10 and opening it up almost threw me off.
Literally!
Stock ZX10: The tank is perfect, I can grip it completely with my knees and keep a loose grip on the bars... until I clutchless shifted from 2nd to 3rd, my ass was almost pulled off the back of that somebitch. I aired it out in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear before coming up on the next corner, that bike flat out hauls the mail, it pushed my 150 lbs ass across the earth at a helluva rate! Not sure how fast I got it up to as I was staring the damn tach down trying to figure out how many revs I was at to time me shifts. Sorry but the tach sucks nutts.The front never lifted in 2nd gear, 1st YES but not 2nd. Going into a few corners over 100 mph is nerving, one corner I tipped it in at 120 and must've hit a bump cause it got all shook-up but then settled down... somewhat. It never felt planted in the corners, under braking, or while running up through the gears at full honk the bars wagged like an excited puppy. I tried shifting my weight forward and in when cornering while loosening my grip on the bars a bit more which helped but it never really settled down. One corner in 2nd gear I barely cracked the throttle and the rear stepped out ever so slightly and slid until it was stood up all the way, very smooth and controlable, good sign of a smooth progressive torque curve. It had around 40 psi in the rear so with lower press. I'm sure it woulda hooked up much better. Brakes need bled or something, lever almost goes to the bar and felt squishy which got my attention before tipping into a corner at 140+ and my last two digits got in the way, not cool. All in all the bike felt raw, mean, and very powerful thoughout the entire rev range. Like it was telling me "I'M the boss now BITCH!". I think with proper tire press and the sag/clickers set peoperly it would probably feel stable enough for street duty, maybe, but would still invest in a dampner especially if it sees any track time.
Vs R1: Compared to the ZX10 the R1 feels guttless down low, can't wait until break-in is done to see what's lurking up high. It also feels very refined and stable, doen't turn-in as quick as the 10 prolly due to the dampner and maybe the longer wheelbase. It's difficult to hang off the side of the bike with the tank shaped the way it is, might put some rubber coating on the tanks flanks to help thigh grip. Brakes are spot on and as good as it gets, it's top kit in my book, right there with my infamous old friend Mr.954 which says alot. Shifting is flawless and perfect, haven't missed a gear yet. Can't go much over 100 mph for now but leaned way over in corners at any speed up to 100 and the bike is abso-fucking-lutely flawless, you can put it anywhere you want and it says "Yes Sir!"; very stable and smooth. I didn't lean the ZX10 as far as I wanted cause it's not my bike and it didn't feel adjusted for me(nervous), but I'm damn impressed that the R1 doesn't touch down anything, not even a peg feeler, while leaned over as far as I do on the street without my full leathers which was at the tire's edges. Can't wait to put this one on the track.
I can't wait until the motor's ran in, we have the same D218s so it'll be interesting for our next ride, we'll have to do some more roll-ons and see what happenes. Stay tuned.
____________
CBR1000RR
Best Literbike: Performance Bikes, Superbike, BIKE, MCN, Road Racing World, and Motorcycle USA
  
|
ikezixxer
Expert Class
Posts: 268
|
posted October 09, 2005 08:01 PM
that zx10r will eat your r1 any day and any circumstance...not trying to talk trash...but i have run against another guy with a 05 R1 with arata full ti system and dyno tuned with -1 +2 sprocket changes and i was striaght eating him like he was on a ninja 500. We both weigh just under 250 so the runs were perfect as far as our weights were concerned. When we did the runs I only had a stock bike with -1 up front and plain M4 slip-on pipe. His front wheel wouldn't even lift off the ground in 1st under full throttle? He had dynoed at 140 at a local tuner whos dyno spits out low numbers...the tuner he goes to competes with my tuner and his tuner claims that he had about 2 rwhp more then any other R1 with full system that they had tuned out of over 15 new R1's they have done there. My zx10r later got tuned somewhere in the mid 160's from a different tuner which stated that as the other guys tuner it would have been somewhere around mid 150's. So after all that shit...the R1 wont hang with the zx10r...but you said the zx10 had good power throughtout the range...i feel the zx10 has no low end from 1-6k is just shitty...from 6-9 is good and from 9k+ is where it gets good...from 1-4k my zx10r feels like my old cbr F4 did.
|
yelozx10r
Expert Class
Green '07 zx6r
Posts: 122
|
posted October 09, 2005 11:58 PM
i'm still stuck on 'my girlfriend bought me an R1 last week'
____________
By the time you read this, I'll be gone!
|
zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
|
posted October 10, 2005 02:28 AM
____________
CBR1000RR
Best Literbike: Performance Bikes, Superbike, BIKE, MCN, Road Racing World, and Motorcycle USA
|
zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
|
posted October 10, 2005 02:38 AM
 Edited By: zx12adam on 10 Oct 2005 04:13
quote:
that zx10r will eat your r1 any day and any circumstance...not trying to talk trash...but i have run against another guy with a 05 R1 with arata full ti system and dyno tuned with -1 +2 sprocket changes and i was striaght eating him like he was on a ninja 500. We both weigh just under 250 so the runs were perfect as far as our weights were concerned. When we did the runs I only had a stock bike with -1 up front and plain M4 slip-on pipe. His front wheel wouldn't even lift off the ground in 1st under full throttle? He had dynoed at 140 at a local tuner whos dyno spits out low numbers...the tuner he goes to competes with my tuner and his tuner claims that he had about 2 rwhp more then any other R1 with full system that they had tuned out of over 15 new R1's they have done there. My zx10r later got tuned somewhere in the mid 160's from a different tuner which stated that as the other guys tuner it would have been somewhere around mid 150's. So after all that shit...the R1 wont hang with the zx10r...but you said the zx10 had good power throughtout the range...i feel the zx10 has no low end from 1-6k is just shitty...from 6-9 is good and from 9k+ is where it gets good...from 1-4k my zx10r feels like my old cbr F4 did.
Lovely "comparison".
We did a few top gear roll-ons from 80mph.
I'm "not trying to talk trash" so I'll let Eric tell you how it went
____________
CBR1000RR
Best Literbike: Performance Bikes, Superbike, BIKE, MCN, Road Racing World, and Motorcycle USA
|
zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
|
posted October 10, 2005 02:43 AM
Edited By: zx12adam on 10 Oct 2005 04:12
quote:
His front wheel wouldn't even lift off the ground in 1st under full throttle?
That should tell you something's wrong with his bike  . Or the rider:P. Or both because if a 100hp Superhawk can throw the front clear overhead in 1st I'm sure a 140+hp literbike will.
And please don't tell me you're another one of those"but the dyno says..." types cause you don't even want to know what our local "dyno tuner" found. Numbers are easily fudged for bragging rights so only good for tuning, not comparing.
*hint ZX10 with slip-on, PCIII, dyno tuned 144 hp
R1 with only slip-ons 157hp. I'm not kidding.
So I think we can agree we don't ride dyno charts and when it comes to going fast peak hp isn't everything. So let's put all the dyno b.s. to bed and just talk bikes man.
____________
CBR1000RR
Best Literbike: Performance Bikes, Superbike, BIKE, MCN, Road Racing World, and Motorcycle USA
|
beansbaxter
Needs a life
Posts: 5911
|
posted October 10, 2005 06:01 AM
I have riden just about every year R1. The 04/05 R1 has all the power up high, the curve is not nearly as raw and as powerful as the 10R. The 02/03 R1 IMHO is far more fun to ride than the new ones, with more bottom end even though it is unrefined.
Go 10R. Live like a Ninja. Live long. Love life. Love 10R.
|
gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted October 10, 2005 06:10 AM
Edited By: gunner on 10 Oct 2005 07:14
Dude if that 10R only pumps 144 it's sick  I've been on the recieving end of what a well tuned and outfitted 10R can do. I've had one rip the GUTS clean out of one of my 12Rs from any situation we put it in. Then to make BAD matters worse we switched bikes because I outweight the other rider by 45 pounds and I went on to finish off my own 12R on his bike. I'm sold. So much so that a 10 will be parked in my shop next to my first string12 after Tuesday of this week.
I will say this as well. We have a very good dyno guy that has a pump that gives pretty fair numbers, not too high or not too low either. So I would say it's pretty close to right. This particular 10R pumps 170 at the rear. It's had about everything external that you can do, but hasn't had the head off!!! It's like anything else to there's good and bad one's out there. The BAD news is that this friend of mine's brother has a 10R that will drill this particular bike. I aint racing him anytime soon 
|
thundermonkey
Novice Class
Posts: 61
|
posted October 10, 2005 06:13 AM
What"s all this about the zx10 not coming up in second?I must have one of those"ringers"
|
gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted October 10, 2005 06:15 AM
The one I rode will send you to the Dentist in 3rd. It must have been a double ringer
|
thundermonkey
Novice Class
Posts: 61
|
posted October 10, 2005 06:27 AM
jangalang jangalang
|
Eric_The_Jew
Expert Class
Posts: 266
|
posted October 10, 2005 07:30 AM
quote:
quote:
that zx10r will eat your r1 any day and any circumstance...not trying to talk trash...but i have run against another guy with a 05 R1 with arata full ti system and dyno tuned with -1 +2 sprocket changes and i was striaght eating him like he was on a ninja 500. We both weigh just under 250 so the runs were perfect as far as our weights were concerned. When we did the runs I only had a stock bike with -1 up front and plain M4 slip-on pipe. His front wheel wouldn't even lift off the ground in 1st under full throttle? He had dynoed at 140 at a local tuner whos dyno spits out low numbers...the tuner he goes to competes with my tuner and his tuner claims that he had about 2 rwhp more then any other R1 with full system that they had tuned out of over 15 new R1's they have done there. My zx10r later got tuned somewhere in the mid 160's from a different tuner which stated that as the other guys tuner it would have been somewhere around mid 150's. So after all that shit...the R1 wont hang with the zx10r...but you said the zx10 had good power throughtout the range...i feel the zx10 has no low end from 1-6k is just shitty...from 6-9 is good and from 9k+ is where it gets good...from 1-4k my zx10r feels like my old cbr F4 did.
Lovely "comparison".
We did a few top gear roll-ons from 80mph.
I'm "not trying to talk trash" so I'll let Eric tell you how it went
Well, I first must say that the R1 is a jewel when it comes to handling. I've never ridden a bike that feels more stable and planted in the turns. Anything you throw at this bike it feels like it can take, even with its "out of the box" suspension setup. As far as the brakes are concerned, the 10 doesn't hold a candle. Maybe some braided stainless lines would change the outcome, but stock for stock, the R1 owns.
However, I wouldn't trade my 10 for the world. It's extremely flickable and leaves the R1 feeling somewhat slow-steering. Not to mention all of that character that the 10 has....there's no sound in the world that compares to what comes from the airbox at 13,000 rpms. And you've gotta love that rattly valvetrain that you can hear through that paper thin valve cover.
As far as the top gear roll-on is concerned, i'm not sure what happened. We both have bone stock bikes, and as stated, Adam couldn't go over 8,300 rpms. Adam weighs about 30 lbs less than me, so i'd venture to say that the combined bike and rider weights have us sitting at pretty close to even. We both nailed the bikes in top gear at around 75-80 mph at the sound of my horn. He proceeds to motor away from the 10. Granted, this didn't last very long because he had to let off at 8,300, but he still left me. After looking at the torque curves of both bikes, i'd venture to say that he nailed it around 6,000 rpms, because that is about the only spot where the R1 has an edge on the 10. Either way, it's got me wanting to take a trip to the dyno 
|
zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
|
posted October 10, 2005 12:23 PM
I'm tempted to retire the 954 and put the R1 on the track, I'm left wondering what holds after I set the sag/clickers. Wonder if it could even get much better.
Hey Eric I was thinking, if you want I'll give you the contact info for GMD Computrac and you can see when they can schedule an appointment to hook-up your suspension, they're in Jax but sometimes go to JenningsGP for a day of tuning, if it makes the same diff on your 10 that it made to my 954 it'll be nite and day, my 954 was more unsettled than your 10 but they made it as stable as my 12 . Big improvement, even shaved 2 seconds a lap at Jennings for only $50. If they can settle that chassis down it'll be best of both worlds... but then again I might have my hands full keeping up on the straights, I might not be able to keep up with you at all so nevermind, the suspension's fine as is
GMD Computrac Jax 904-997-2030 ask for Kent, it's been awhile so not sure if he's still with them, he was training to be a firefighter earlier this year.
And don't worry too much about the top-gear roll-ons, it's got me scratching my head too after going back over the dynographs. Just goes to show you can't read too much into those things, they don't tell the whole story, only a fraction of it, there's still gearing, aerodynamics of the bike and rider, ram air efficiency etc...
I'm turning about 5000 rpm's at 80mph. Could be 5500 but not too sure.
My motor will be broken-in and oil changed before the weekend, I have to work Sun at 2pm, up for a Sat or Sun morn ride? Let me know.
|
zx12adam
Member
Posts: 878
|
posted October 10, 2005 12:33 PM
And almost forgot about the sound(music), the 10 has a harsh, mean, rip to it's roar, and that's with the stock pipe. Sounds good.
But I remember racing Jeff's R1 with my 12, he got the jump and as I reeled him in it made a higher pitched screaming wail like a scolded Banshee on crack being dipped into boiling oil, you should get a good hear of it when I pull out ahead of you
IF I pull ahead of you.
____________
CBR1000RR
Best Literbike: Performance Bikes, Superbike, BIKE, MCN, Road Racing World, and Motorcycle USA
|
|
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC