k bryant
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posted June 06, 2005 08:48 AM
Ortega's not a racetrack
For those who ride SoCal, you know Ortega is one of the more popular spots; like ACH and Palomar. We lost a rider on Friday morning. Then lost another one on Sunday morning. Both in the same general area (Lookout to Elsinore). They closed the roads both times. I came up there Sunday and the road was closed. The Police Officers were definetly agitated, and I can't blame them at all. They completed their investigation and opened the road back up. When I got to the Lookout, the place was basically empty. Not sure if that was from the accident, or perhaps Police cleared the Lookout (I've always wondered if they would do that). I'm sure they are very frustrated with all the guys jumping off and in general riding very dangerously from the Lookout to Elsinore. As usual when tragic events like this take place, the roads will be closely monitored for some time to come. My sincere condolences to the rider's families.....
Point is, I think it boils down simply knowing the difference between the street and the track. The street is not a racetrack. Though I am no angel by any means, I've always done my faster riding very early or very late when traffic is minimal or non-existent. And ALWAYS stay within my limits and the surrounding circumstances. Both these events took place early, and appears they were both rider errors.....
I'm sure in many parts of the country and world, we have members with favorite roads with similar issues. It happens frequently, but it causes me to pause when we have literly "back to back".
Ride safe. And save the really fast rides for the racetrack.
   
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fish_antlers
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posted June 06, 2005 09:13 AM
seemed like a racetrack everytime I went there
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TedG
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posted June 06, 2005 09:36 AM
I saw a deal on that place, the way those guys were riding was absolutely nuts. I am guilty of riding fast on back roads but I will not risk mine or anyone else's life to pass a car.If a road is busy it is just a good idea to stay away from it.. It sucks when anyone gets hurt on a motorcycle. I hate to hear this kind of stuff. We have a responsibility to our families that we need to realize and understand our limitations.
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worm~hole
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posted June 06, 2005 09:26 PM
...sad....but I doubt CHP will clear the Lookout just because of another incident like that...I doubt CHP has any say-so about who gets to visit the Lookout...I think its more like the sportbikers avoided it because they didn't want to be scrutinized by CHP in the area for equipment violations on their bikes if they had any 'mods', y'know?...
...that's why I like to ride mid-week anywhere...less chance of a wannabe racer running into me or having to sit in traffic because the road got closed again...
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zeta xray
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posted June 07, 2005 09:59 AM
The more track days I attend, the less attractive riding on the street becomes. I still have my favorite roads to go play on but I am visiting them much less often than I used to and I feel my riding is much more restrained than it used to be. There are just too many variables to contend with on the public roads. When I look back at some of the crazy shit I used to pull in cars and on motorcycles, I can't help but think that I am lucky to be here. I think I have pressed my luck enough already.
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TedG
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posted June 07, 2005 10:50 AM
 Edited By: TedG on 7 Jun 2005 15:53
The problem with track days is that you can't just start up the bike and take off from the garage every time you feel like it. I usually do 200 miles a day on both Sat. and Sun. But I do try to stay away from high traffic areas. We lose the joy of riding bikes when we have to haul them to ride them. Most of my life I have lived by this: I eat, sleep, dream, ride, live, and love motorcycles. And there is a certain feeling of well being I get from just going riding. The problem is I am an idiot that can be sucked into any contest of speed, or a good opportunity to show off.
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k bryant
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posted June 07, 2005 04:15 PM
zeta - good for you. I couldn't agree more with you. But I love to putt down to the beach, as much as shredding in the canyons or at the race track. It's just all about the love of riding.
And I agree with both of you actually. I try very hard to not get "sucked into any contest of speed". But it can/ is very difficult sometimes to say "no thanx". The times now that I do say no thanx, are with people I don't know and/or that ride over their heads trying to keep up. For the most part, with the guys I normally ride with, we slow down/go slower on the straights and wait for each other. Then when the moments are right, it's knees down at a reasonable pace.
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TedG
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posted June 07, 2005 04:35 PM
You are right and I need to resist the temptation of the contest of speed. I was just talking today with Dan Waller (you should remember him, a top 10 national motocrosser) We work together and ride together, dirt and street and both agree we need to use better judgment. Although we never ride over 80% on the street, it is easy to get tickets with just a little bit of showing off. It is just that wheelies and such are a ton of fun. Self control, self control..keep saying that.
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kz2zx
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posted June 07, 2005 05:08 PM
Zeta. +1.
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worm~hole
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posted June 07, 2005 05:30 PM
...I have a bookful of tickets...all blanks...collectin' dust and mildew...anybody want one? 
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bovinespongiformencephalo
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posted June 07, 2005 10:26 PM
Ortega is lame. Not enough curve to the road. Makes it a magnet for talentless squids. Of course a lot of them will get splattered. Darwin never sleeps.
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Hamilton
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posted June 08, 2005 08:45 AM
Last Saturday, at the 30 mph 180 degree left hander just before the candy store, an 18 wheeler came flying over the double yellow. Luckily, I always ride in the middle of the lane and was able to duck out of the way. If I would have been hugging the centerline I would have been a splat!
Then, going down the backside, an idiot on a tiller 1000 is passing EVERYTHING over the double yellow, even on blind curves. Ortega is a highway of carnage.
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k bryant
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posted June 08, 2005 09:55 AM
quote:
Ortega is lame. Not enough curve to the road. Makes it a magnet for talentless squids. Of course a lot of them will get splattered. Darwin never sleeps.
We all have our favorites... I love Palomar and ACH just as much. It's just a little far for these old broken too many times carpal tunnel infested wrists to handle. By the time I get down there, they're a hurtin... As far as not having enough "curves", it's a beautiful flowing ride from 5 to Elsinore or the Lookout to Elsinore or vice/versa. I do agree though that there are far too many riders up there going too fast for their experience or current skills. But at least more and more of them are getting the message and doing more track days than ever at Fontana and Willow Springs. It's very cool to see guys at the track that I've seen or met at the Lookout. I definetly go out of my way to congraulate and encourge them to continue "taking it to the track".
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frEEk
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posted June 08, 2005 11:22 AM
quote:
...an idiot on a tiller 1000 is passing EVERYTHING over the double yellow, even on blind curves.
i've just never understood this, and it infuriates me when i see it. why would u pass on a blind corner? u make a habit of that and u'r practically guaranteed to get killed eventually. it's not liek u or the oncoming car will have time to avoid a collision. i remember seeing one such pass years ago that really blew my mind. headin to lillooet on the duffy, buddy on a red & white R1 blows past a couple riders behind us, matt & myself, and 3 or 4 cars in front of us, passing the last couple around a tight, 100% blind corner with a vertical liff of at elast 100ft on the inside (hense the blindness) and a vertical dropoff of over 100ft on the outside with just the standard little concrete barrier. its's a corner marked about 30mph (i think), that ALWAYS has gravel on it thanks to the crumbly cliff on the inside. the fact that he made the corner at all was lucky as hell, never mind the potential for an oncoming care with NOWHERE to swerve. what a fucknut.
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TedG
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posted June 08, 2005 02:15 PM
Passing on blind corners seems to be the way the not-so-good riders feel they can beat a good rider. They know that they can get around and in their mind "beat" the better rider. I have ridden with many riders that do that. I will also tell them to their face that that is the most asinine thing they can do and if they want to ride that way I will not be riding with them. Too many time have I helped pick up riders who have crashed, and I just don't want to have to do that. It is not fun. Whenever I come to a blind corner, I take the furthest outside line I can, so even if a car is straddling the center line, I am clear. It is not the fastest line but it has saved me on more than one occasion. I love to ride fast, but I will not risk mine or anyone else's life to pass a car.
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k bryant
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posted June 08, 2005 06:01 PM
So very true.
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bovinespongiformencephalo
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posted June 08, 2005 10:23 PM
I'm all for getting the retards off the street KB, but it does suck when they start to clog up the trackdays and club races.
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frEEk
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posted June 08, 2005 11:42 PM
u know, that actually brings up a really interesting point: club tracks. i was gonna say just MORE tracks, and perhaps they are more strictly divided into experience groups, but that wont exsure idiots are kept out. it occurred to me there are plenty of private ski hills, an equally expensive endeavour shared by many people, and the same concept would prolyl work for tracks. damn, somebody really has to do this!
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TedG
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posted June 09, 2005 07:42 AM
Track days are a great thing. But of all the friends I have the frequent them, more have been hurt by others taking them out, riding over their heads, or just thinking that they are Valentino Rossi. Than they ever did on the road. Now they are on asphalt with a bunch of guys who don't have the experience with bikes that require much more experience than they have to offer. When I started racing there were classes that you had to progress through, you would start out in sportsman novice, then when you won enough races they would promote you to junior, then win more and get promoted to Expert. Top 20 experts in the district were what they called white plates (#19 white plate here) . Then you were allowed to turn semi pro, then pro. So you were always grouped with riders that had equal levels of experience. But these track days can be a free for all. and the bikes today are so much faster. Now some are organized but many aren't and it is up to the rider to pick which group he rides with. And many don't choose wisely.
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k bryant
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posted June 09, 2005 07:46 AM
bovine - again, so true. When I have friends who go, I like to do the level 3 so we can play and simply have a great time. When I go by myself or on "someone else's" bike(s) I do level 4 because there's far less people, it's mostly racers (who for the most part have more consistent lines), and you can pass anywhere. But in level 3, man it get crowded !!!! And since you can only pass on the outside, which I don't normally like doing with people I don't know, it can get pretty hairy. Seems like every session and/or corner, somebody jumps off and ruins their day (more so at Fontana).
But it is funny you comment on that. I do admit that sometimes I think the same thing.... I guess we're just greedy sometimes.....
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Hamilton
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posted June 09, 2005 08:42 AM
quote:
Passing on blind corners seems to be the way the not-so-good riders feel they can beat a good rider.
You are exactly right, that guy had the worst riding style, counter-leaning on every turn. Totally laughable.
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kz2zx
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posted June 09, 2005 09:34 AM
Well, while we're off the Ortega topic...
MW supersport/superbike grids are scarey. A beginner race at most venues would help there - require people to run the beginner race X times (x <= 5, say) before gridding in a SS race. This should help tone down the excitement-generated squiddery, and get some of the ideas of safe passing and racing into people's heads.
I've taken to only doing one MW race a weekend, and racing HW instead. Yes, I get fewer points finishing further back and with far fewer racers behind me, but I'm not in danger of winning a championship anyway, and the grids are MUCH smaller with racers I trust much more. I still do the one MW race so I have a chance at passing more than one racer during the race (last MW race last weekend I got hung up behind a pack in the first corner, then passed all five in the first two laps, then had empty track the rest of the race).
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bluedevil
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posted June 09, 2005 01:31 PM
I guess Ortega will never change. I live in Sacramento now but grew up in LA. Ortega was my favorite place and that was 20yrs ago. Well I went into a guard rail there on one of the last turns coming down the mountain. That to this day is the only bad crash I have ever had. Also, when I lived there I remember a stat about at least 6 people died on that road every year and it sounds like it's still true, but it was a mess when I lived there because I went back the next weekend to look over the guard rail that saved me and there was alot of different color bike parts on the bottom oif the hill on that same turn. Just thought I throw my experiance in on that road so take it as you need too.
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k bryant
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posted June 09, 2005 04:16 PM
Small world. I lived in Sacramento for 13 years. South Sac by the Elk Grove border off Franklin Blvd. Been in SoCal since '93. Ortega is definetly not getting any safer....
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TedG
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posted June 09, 2005 04:18 PM
Edited By: TedG on 9 Jun 2005 17:19
quote:
Small world. I lived in Sacramento for 13 years. South Sac by the Elk Grove border off Franklin Blvd. Been in SoCal since '93. Ortega is definetly not getting any safer....
I used to play hockey at the roller rink in Franklin. The owner was a good friend of mine. but that was in the 60 and 70s
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