ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
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posted November 06, 2003 06:12 AM
IS THIS WORTH 33 RWHP?
Carpenter 1290 piston kit
Carpenter Race cams
HD valve springs plus Ti retainers
Ported head
pc3
Muzzy advancer
The bike in question made 167 rwhp with a Ackro pipe. Wondering whether the list of items above will take it to 200 rwhp.
NM
  
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted November 06, 2003 06:46 AM
Depends on the size of your wallet I suppose
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted November 06, 2003 07:25 AM
Depends on WHO you ask....................
With the above combination the only performance affectors are:
1) piston kit = extra 90cc maybe 15 hp???
2) cams = less than 10 hp based on the profile of carpenter cams.
3) HD valve springs = needs at least 1 HP due to more resistance.
4) ported head = since head is NOT the weak link in the airflow no HP change, probably more torque though.
5) PC3 = Proper a/f ratio control, maybe some small help
6) timing advancer = depends on where in the curve you want improvement, for higher rpm HP, just leave it at zero. (I currently took my advancer back off and put on OEM.)
My experience, with my 1270 with ALL those changes and y2k exhaust was 157 to 170HP. However, real world performance was WAY ABOVE other stock zx12's dynoing at 175 to 180 HP.........there is more to being fast than dyno numbers!
My experience, you will be able to get into the mid 180's realistically. You will be able to find a "HAPPY" HP numbers if you want to talk to others, but I would simply go to the track and measure your current MPH and then measure MPH later.
Second, don't worry about the $1000 for the cams. Get a stroker crank instead for $1000. Then you will definitely be able to get near 200HP.
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
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posted November 06, 2003 08:36 AM
 Edited By: ninjamissile on 6 Nov 2003 08:37
Cheers ra12r
I am in a real dilemma at the moment. Carpenter have quoted me just over $2000 for the 1290 kit with cams and springs or I could go the 1375 stroker route for $2000. If I went the stroker route then I know that my reliability could suffer plus I would have to pay for HD springs, get some cam wheels and get the cams degreed adding to the cost. More thinking out loud I think!!
NM
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addisonzx12
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted November 06, 2003 09:00 AM
I had the 1290, done by flo-tec. Head was cleaned up, put a intake cam only on it. Got between 196 & 200 sae, depending on dyno used. Now I have had the bike stroked also, now a 1380(1290 + 4mm stroke) bike now gets 203/205 sae. Hp hasn't changed much, but torque is WAAY UP! Best bang for the buck is the 1290 & cams. But the stroker is a lot more forgiving, if you miss a shift point the torque will make up for it.
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moonzx12
Expert Class
Posts: 153
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posted November 06, 2003 09:01 AM
could some list what combonations there runing Vs. et/mph
may that info would help you decide ex. 1198cc-6.30(1/8)114.mph
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted November 06, 2003 03:19 PM
Edited By: mrsantafe on 6 Nov 2003 15:22
I have that exact combo, i purchased from carpenter. Heres a little history.
1)Stock 153 hp
2)hindle pipe added 169 hp only
3)p/c mapped, muzzy stacks, timing adv 4 degrees.
I saw no differnce in horsepower gain with the p/c mapped. Of course better ridability- smoothed out flat spots. Installing muz stacks added 3hp in mid range about 7500 rpm but no added peak horsepower. timing adv tried at different settings added 1 hp max at 4 degrees. 170 hp
4) Added kn filter lost 3hp!!! on back to back runs. Put the stock filter back in an got hp back. I had a new map made for the kn and still didnt get all old hp back. Sold the kn's
5)Here it comes! Got the carpenter kit and blam 191 hp with bobs suggested map. However, his map did not work well at mile high. Since then the bikes been back for some fine tuning and have not been able to get past 186 hp.
6) I'm going to phoenix on the 14th-17th to northvalley honda for a custom map. Here i'm hoping to see some new found power!! I'll keep you posted!
I went to the qtrmile from stock to its current confiq.
Stock- 5300ft track 230lb rider 10.9-11.2 @ 130-131 mph
Hindle and some more practice with 17-47 gearing 10.50
135.7 175 60ft.
Added CARPENTER KIT!! 9.9-10.0 @ 142 nearly 143 mph.
Stock 130-131
piped 133-135
Carpenter kit 140-143 mph.
It's safe to say that all the parts added to at least a 10 mph gain or roughly 40 hp.
Just for shi-s and giggles I had a small guy 160 in leathers ride it he ran a high 9@ nearly 146 at mile high!
Yes the carpenter kit to me was well worth the money!!
Temperatures here are sometimes greater than 100 degrees. Yet the bike has never overheated in repeated stop and go traffic. Yes, it runs fairly hot about 3/4 on the guage but no overheating problems. The bike is 100% stone reliable, I definately know he makes a fine product. As far as the claimed 203 hp, we'll have to see. The dyno where my bike has been run is stingy(way) Not one bike has my friend dynoed stock has come anywhere near the hp output in the mags. It seems his dyno is off roughly 6% as compared to mag claims!! Sorry for the biography but I hope this helps sway your decision. Good luck!!
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted November 06, 2003 05:20 PM
My story
155hp stock
pipe, pc3, map, timing, 171-175hp max hp i ever made depending on dyno.
500 dollar nitrous kit....242hp/138tq 
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted November 06, 2003 06:15 PM
YCIS.... Thats me exactly.... Nos priceless...
Why put in pistons when the old ones are still good...
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ZXALAN
Expert Class
Posts: 156
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posted November 06, 2003 06:56 PM
Ninja Missile, you say "ported head", is it porte BY Carpentor? You cannot go wrong with the Carpentor package if it includes HIS headwork. You WILL make 200hp with a 1290, Carpentor head and cams and a custom map. EASY! Thats enough power for 8.90s if you are relatively light and can put it to the strip. Wish I could afford a Carpentor package. 
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ZXALAN
Expert Class
Posts: 156
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posted November 06, 2003 07:03 PM
After re-reading your post, for $2k I guarantee its NOT including headwork. He gets $2k for a fully worked, big valved head alone.
As for the piston kit vs. stroker, millions of people have been using piston kits for a reason. I would do a stroker if I was going all out but to use stock pistons, thats kinda defeating the purpose. I know Entropys first 1361 motor lasted a long time, tons of passes, top end was like 201 on GPS and it lasted for over a year I think. Actually I don't know why he ever took it apart. It was the re-weld crank. When he put the billet crank in it is when he had all the problems. KISS, keep it simple stupid. That theory is worth its weight in gold with sportbikes. :P
I think you will be happy with the Carpentor 1290 kit with cams, even with a stock head. You need valve springs though just incase you want to shoot some crack to it!
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addisonzx12
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted November 06, 2003 07:04 PM
Yep, dry shot definitely something to consider! Best bang for the buck!! But, you got to keep that bottle full! Just not quite the same thing as being able to say, 'ALL MOTOR'. That being said, I have a dry shot too. I was getting pissed at seemingly stock bikes, with nothing but a pipe & dry nos ALMOST keeping up with my built 12.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted November 06, 2003 08:17 PM
quote:
you got to keep that bottle full!
Only has to stay full for about 9 seconds
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
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posted November 07, 2003 03:07 AM
mrsantafe
Thanks for your input. Its good to hear someone talking well of a product your just about to buy. I have never ordered from Carpenter before so to hear people on this board praising them gives me confidence in their product and service.
ZXALLAN
No my head in not ported by Carpenter but a guy here in the UK called Stan Stephens. He done a fine job. He charged me $650 and it was worth nearly 3 tenths in the quarter so for me thats money well spent.
Looks like I'm gonna have something from Carpenter in my stocking this CHRISTMAS!
NM
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mrfast
Expert Class
Posts: 114
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posted November 07, 2003 05:55 AM
Muzzy 1270, stock head,cams,valve springs, 191 HP,106 FT LBS of torque.Currently 9000 miles on this combo,some drag racing, 2 track days at Road America,no problems.With stock wheelbase, this is all you need.
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted November 07, 2003 06:49 AM
Hey turboblew and zx12 richard, Ive been contemplating juice for a while, i'm just afraid I'll get addicted to it.
Then i'll think my bikes slow off the bottle!
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted November 07, 2003 11:46 AM
Ninja, I don't think buying the 1290 kit is the biggest question to ask here. I feel you will be happy and "FEEL" the difference. Your head is ready, and you have a good pipe. The big question is the cams!!! Ask more questions about performance improvements with the current cams available. THe question i would like to know is::::at what lift is the Head optimum flow?! .030 more lift is NOT enough change to make a difference. None of the cams available that are "drop ins" change the duration enough either. Sooooo, is 3-5 HP for $1200 worth it?!?! Buy the adjustable gears and degree your stock cams!!! Use the money saved for your dry shot if you want one,,,,,,,
____________
All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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addisonzx12
Expert Class
Posts: 213
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posted November 07, 2003 03:17 PM
Megacycle has some .405 lift cams for the 12 on it's web site! They might work pretty well! Maybe this winter....!! I wonder how much low end would be left!
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted November 07, 2003 07:10 PM
Edited By: zx12richard on 7 Nov 2003 19:10
Mine went 213.7 on a single shot... Never dynoed the double shot.... And yes its addicting.. believe I had a 28 jet in it then..
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 07, 2003 09:40 PM
Edited By: VincentHill on 7 Nov 2003 21:43
You are now looking at what I looked at when thinking about wanting to go over 200 at Maxton. I could spend close to $3,000 and maybe end up with 205 to 210 HP! Not enough HP for me to get the speed I wanted! I still Spent $2,000, but I have just about everything I need and the Aero tail section along with the modified tank and Pipe. For less than $1,000 more, I will have over 325 HP when I install the Forged pistons and heavier Valve springs! Try as you might, but how do you argue with 325 HP??
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted November 08, 2003 01:15 AM
vincent,
are you stepping up to a 150hp shot?????
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 08, 2003 06:08 AM
SOrt of looks that way! Someone has even offered to give me a little help in my chosen direction. I built a bike for 200 and that was just about it, so now I am looking at 220 so if I fall short, it will still be somewhere I will not be too unhappy with if I miss this mark. If nothing else, I want to be the fastest NA Bike at Maxton (Whip those Busas. WHich is the goal of the person giving me a little help!). I am also planning to do this with the Stock front end! My limits may be around 210 or so, but Randall may be able to reach the 220 on the bike! Yes I am going to (As the man on tv says) "Kick It up another Notch"! Each time I work on the bike I have gained close to 20 MPH. The First record was set at 159 mph second time just over 180 this time 199. You get the idea.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted November 08, 2003 12:36 PM
Don't think I'd spend any money on anyone's cams. That's partly from experience on my zrx and my old 12. Mine had a .400 intake cam and a stock intake cam on the exhaust and I don't think it made much more hp than other 1361s. The stock intake cam is around .370-.380? Another friend has a 1290 that's cammed like my old bike. His doesn't make earth shattering numbers either although both our bikes ran great mph.
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Your Car Is Slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted November 09, 2003 09:54 AM
quote:
, Ive been contemplating juice for a while, i'm just afraid I'll get addicted to it.
Then i'll think my bikes slow off the bottle!
You will
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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ninjamissile
Expert Class
Posts: 222
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posted November 10, 2003 03:26 AM
ra12r and krexken
Thanks for the tip concerning the cams. My friend Keith is just about tho fit some cams that were done by a company here in England. When they go back in the bike (soon I hope) I will see what difference they make and base my decision on that. IMHO if they dont give at least 5bhp they aint worth the money. I would just go and buy some cam wheels and get the Stock cams degreed.
NM
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