ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted November 28, 2003 10:42 AM
The Meaning of track times......
Trying to learn over the years the values of numbers and times at the drag strip. Learning how to apply those numbers and times to what is happening within the motors that i have been dealing with to help and modify. I am open to learning more about how to apply times and MPH. Having said that, would someone please explain to me what is happening with the zx10r that was rode at the rock?!
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rac4it
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Bergie
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posted November 28, 2003 12:18 PM
MPH is an indication of horsepower. ET is an indication of ability, traction, and wheelbase.
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
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posted November 28, 2003 01:17 PM
quote:
MPH is an indication of horsepower. ET is an indication of ability, traction, and wheelbase.
I believe you but can you elaborate a bit more???
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted November 28, 2003 03:13 PM
9.87@151 = Whole lotta hp but a bike(or rider) that cant launch..or has lack of traction/wheelbase..or both
9.87@130 = a bike that can launch like a champ...has some great traction...and a good rider....but falls on its face due to lack of hp on the big end.
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
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posted November 28, 2003 03:43 PM
So What would you get from a 9.79 @ 153????? I let a buddy run mine once cause he's hundred pounds lighter than me... First time he rode it also... Stock arm dunslop stock tire also... And stock clutch soon to be toasted after a couple runs..
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted November 28, 2003 03:45 PM
 Edited By: RAC4IT on 28 Nov 2003 15:47
153mph = +/- 190rwhp
the ET can be improved for that MPH significantly
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zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
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posted November 28, 2003 04:31 PM
It made 213.7 just before this run.... Since this I have added a second stage of juice and a race slick and a 6 inch over arm... And major gearing change... 17/51... I wanna see its capibilitys...
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zxlnt
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Kawpuke Extraordinare
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posted November 28, 2003 05:31 PM
Ok how about 9.55 149mph
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BA
Pro
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posted November 28, 2003 09:09 PM
Edited By: frEEk on 29 Nov 2003 11:03
Ooooo Ooooo Ooooo!!!! Mr. Kotter!!
I'll tell ya what I think the numbers say on that 10R run....
The 148mph tells me that the engine was making almost the same power to weight as I (and many other) 12R's are currently making. (wish I knew the weight of the 10R!)
The ET is telling me that the bike, even without having seen it!, had a loong wheelbase. ie. traction to go with his MPH.
The 1/8th mph solidifies the 'power/weight' theory. I believe it was 119mph. Again, similar to 12R's that run a 148ish trap speed.
quote:
MPH is an indication of horsepower. ET is an indication of ability, traction, and wheelbase.
Before the thread gets off topic, I'll say that I think Berg is completely correct in the statement above.
MPH is directly correlated to HP because it involves both time and distance. (One formula is: hp = weight * (trap-speed / 234)3rd pwr)
We know that TQ is a 'force'. We know that HP is that Force over a certain Time.
When moving a known 'weight' a specific 'distance', to a specific MPH, you can easily get HP numbers.
Good reading on that stuff here:
http://www.pro-flow.com/tech%20info/mustmath.htm
It's not always straight-forward to just look at ET and MPH, but it's the biggest factors. Obvious things that can skew the numbers are Wheelspin, Air Quality, Rider Weight/skill, Wheelies.
ZXLNT: your numbers tell me, for a 12R, Bus or GSXR1k, that the motor was probably stock, probably with pipe and sprocket to get that MPH.
Either a darn good launch with a 160-180lb rider, or only a 'decent' launch with a lightweight. Rider got to WOT in good time though. (MPH tells this also) 60' and 1/8th mile numbers would tell me if there was a power-wheelie or not.
OR, it's a TFA member with a non-stock swingarm and more than 1199cc's. 
I look at it as being 'acceptable windows' for known parameters.
ie. I know that someone my size on a standard 12R should be going 148-150 depending upon weather conditions.
I can also base ET in a window of 9.30 - 9.70 for someone of my size.
I add around a Tenth for every 25lbs extra, and .1 - .5 depending upon skill and experience. (just my 'made-up' numbers)
Then I'd add in around .05-.10 ET reduction for every inch of extra swingarm.
Those are all windows that I use in sizing up someones times or capabilities.
[ edit: fixed link ]
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zrxdean
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posted November 29, 2003 08:50 AM
FWIW, here's a handy calculator to see how much you're getting out of your bike. Enter your total weight and best timeslip and calculate how much RWHP your bike makes according to trap speed, and how much RWHP it would take to get your ET. If the numbers match (or the ET number is higher), you are getting the most out of your bike.
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/calc_estimatehp.htm
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted November 29, 2003 12:01 PM
With that power it should be trapping more and yielding better ET
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BA
Pro
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posted November 29, 2003 12:43 PM
true dat, but hey, it was his friends first time riding it! (re:213hp of zx12Richard)
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necro
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My Grandma Is A Virgin
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posted November 29, 2003 08:12 PM
I think the 60 ft time is one of the most important numbers.
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keith
Expert Class
Posts: 155
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posted November 30, 2003 12:44 AM
The 60' and eighth times are not good which shows me the bike had a big second half of the track rush to get to 153 mph. That I assume is down to the 213 rwhp. Keith
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necro
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My Grandma Is A Virgin
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posted November 30, 2003 03:01 PM
quote:
MPH is an indication of horsepower. ET is an indication of ability, traction, and wheelbase.
Actually HP-to-weight ratio.
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3829
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted November 30, 2003 04:45 PM
well, yeah, you're right. Power to weight also. 
I probably didn't state that I was meaning 'on a specific bike'. ie. where you know your ballpark of times, and the Power to Weight is constant.
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zxlnt
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Kawpuke Extraordinare
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posted November 30, 2003 07:16 PM
quote:
I think the 60 ft time is one of the most important numbers.
Thats important yes but what I have seen the 330 time is equaly if not more important. A good 60 doesn't mean anything if your soft or wheelie after that....
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oldkawboy
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posted December 01, 2003 09:41 AM
Chad has learned that the 330' time is a critical part of dragracing.
Dan
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keith
Expert Class
Posts: 155
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posted December 02, 2003 01:34 AM
My son Lorcan and I both ride my 12R at various meetings. He is usually one or two tenths (sometimes three) quicker than me although we share the same terminals. So I reckon ET's are down to ability and terminals are down to HP. His best 60' 1.48, mine 1.57 and he's usually 2-3 mph up at the eighth as a result of his better launch technigue. Personally I think he gets the throttle pinned just that bit earlier when he leaves the line. He is about three inches taller than me and about a stone (14lbs to you over there) lighter. So I'm with Necro on this. Keith
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TurboBlew
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BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
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posted December 02, 2003 04:38 AM
I gotta say the 330 is the biggest obstacle to overcome. The 60' is easier to get down. Basically you should be WFO by the 60 and in the next 270' be riding your ass off. 
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Broken Wind
Expert Class
Posts: 103
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posted December 02, 2003 04:47 PM
Another vote for the 330. You can pick the wheel up and carry it thru the 60' mark and have a killer 60ft....then flip off the back of the bike and watch it slide thru the 330.......
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted December 02, 2003 05:51 PM
I use a bar and slick. 60-ft times are everything to me.
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted December 03, 2003 10:58 AM
I can show you dozens of my timeslips where my 60' is 1.52 - 1.56 on a stock-armed 12R, but then due to a 1st gear power wheelie that I couldn't clutch out of, my ET sucked. (for me)
BUT, .....EVERY time I have a good 330', ie...4.0x - 4.16 or so, my ET is going to be good! Every time.
60's are important, but the 330 tells you more about how the run will be at the end.
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted December 03, 2003 01:51 PM
what he said!
sometime the good 60' show just how quickly you screwed the pass.
Like when you power wheelie 10' out the hole, great 60' but now way in hell to stay on the gas. I believe some of my best 60' where on the back tire. my best pass (et) felt like glass.
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