whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted August 19, 2010 08:21 PM
 Edited By: whitehendrix on 20 Aug 2010 04:56
whitey's turbo build
( i had this on kawiforums.com.. so if it seems sorta pieced together, that is because it is.. lol.. i filtered the chit-chat out as best as i could...)
might as well.. sorta halfass started on it the other day. have a few snails to play with.. got the motor back to the house since it was where i used to work at.. since it was here and i had a boring weekend, i spent hours going deaf with a grinder to make the 954 exhaust fit the .040" smaller exhaust port bores.
took the TB22 apart to start cleaning it. it's been rebuilt once already back in 2003.. i should probably do it again, but i can't get the wheels to hit the scroll.. so, fuck it. i'll run it til i find something else.. lol
have to make a trip up north soon i think because i'm pretty sure somehow i forgot the adjustable cam gears 
also missing head bolts, but am planning on running ARP studs.. so, fuck those bolts. hahaaa
well, after 2 days of grinding and sanding and whatnot, got 3 pipes to fit. lol.. ran out of cut-off wheels. sucks.. but, it's a start.
this is where the magic is happening.. had to move the tig rig off the roller cab tho.. that used to be my engine building bench,, it has returned to it's original intent.
stock pipe and the modded pipe and flange. the holes in the flange were off just a tiny bit.. matco carbide burrs to da rescue.
had to remove about .020" the whole way around the damn things to make em fit.. shit sucked.
alot.
hate grinding metal. lol next time, i'm buying pipe, a bender, and making those little rings to fit on a lathe.
fuck modding shit.. BUT, it was free, so....
gonna offset the snail so it's hidden in the bodywork.. not sure yet how high i wanna mouint it.. it'd be easier to sling it WAY low under the radiator and use some sorta pump to pull oil out and back into the pan, but i really don't wanna do that.. will probably fab a custom bracket up, mod the bodywork and move the radiator forward 3" at the top and 5 at the bottom if i can.. that way i can run the charge piping straight to the intercooler without any stupid bullshit going on with the piping
so, heres 3 of the 4 pipes.. they're a little far out and i'll probably end up bending them a bit more. thought of armadillo bends, but i don't like that shit for something that'll be structural as this will be holding the turbo up.. so, fuck cutting and welding.. gonna pack those pipes with sand and bend the bastards til i like them.
gonna run 1 into 2 and 3 into 4 and bring both those down into the collector.. but i have some extra pipe, so i might be able to pair them so the exhaust pulses aid in cylinder scavenging.. then again, i'm not even sure on the firing order. .lol.. would actually be better to build around the firing order! haha.
i have some trickery shit up mah sleeve.. not gonna say tho. .secret race trick. you'll see it after i get pics and run it/test it to see how effective it is.. might have to play with that setup i'm trying to perfect the shit and how it works.. as a hint tho, it'll help with spooling.. thats all i'm gonna say on that. heheee
once i get the tank filled for the tig rig, i'll start cutting and tacking pipes up and fabbing the airbox.. maybe.. still would rather spend the money on the CBR throttle bodies... being that EFI is the ultimate goal.. so, lets see if i can't maker this all happen!
no time frame on this yet.. all revolves around money.. but a realistic goal could be 12 months with efi and tune done, and several LSR records under the belt. a few months should a better job pop up. HP goal is between 250-300 at the wheel. MPH goal is 210 or better.. with 300hp i should be able to get 230mph with ease.
(HOPING!!!!!!)
math time.
so, i read up on the TB.. lots of ppl here and on some busa forums think this turbo is hot shit for less than a liter.. still flows a fuck ton of air tho.
we'll find out.
i am calculating my Ve to be about 90% when i'm done.. tho i keep reading to plug in "100" as a VE percentage for boosted motors.
being this is my first non-car, full race turbo motor, i'm not honestly sure what to plug in.. lol.. i've built turbo motors, but not for a bike, from scratch with nothing to draw on..
that, coupled with several density ratios for different boost levels will net more accurate numbers when i can locate a comp map.. which is impossible it seems
trim seems on par with a chinese turbo manufacturer's specs. they're calling out a 1.57 inducer/ 2.02 exducer for comp and 1.53/1.85 for turbine. i got close... not sure if its my cheap ass 4" calipers or not tho.
actually got 2.021 for exducer on comp.. still think it's my calipers tho.
either way, 60 trim comp at a .48 A/R
flows 304 CFM max
turbine..
these (←*clicky*) guys say 1.53/1.85 for ex/in, but i got 1.520/1.840
again, not trusting calipers.. lol
either way, according to chart, 67 trim. according to my numbers, 69 trim.
without DR and VE accounted for, lookin at 165.543 CFM @ 12,500rpm
with a DR of 1.4 ( guessing without map.. ) and a VE of 90%, looking at 208.572 CFM @ 12,500 RPM
god knows what comp map that 1.4 DR was sourced from, but it's a fairly common number anyway. most times, puts ya at the peak efficiency island.
next up is mic-ing the cross sectional area of the headers and the rows of the IC.. i was looking at it tonight and was thinking of narrowing it up be 6 rows.. lighter. more compact and less pressure drop.
so, mic the tubes in the IC. OR see if i can locate a flowbench and have the IC flowed.. see what it does.. then calculate what each tube's flowrate is and see if i yank a few off the end and make it a little more compact. less material i have to use then too.
OR, i may pull the last tube, then shorten the whole thing by 2" or so... gotta see how my airbox ideas pan out.
so, after hours of google action.. a compressor map!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so, according to this, between a 1.6 and 2.15 PR will net the PEI @ 74%. which.. is the goal, after all.
at 12psi, we see a PR of 1.81
at 20, 2.36
20 puts us off the PEI, but still within 70%... -win.
so, with a corrected DR, we see 269 CFM with a 1.21 PR @ 12PSI for my motor at redline.
bad news now.. lol.. at a 2.36 PR ( at 20psi) we see 351 CFM..
we can BARELY make it before the choke line at 357 CFM.. lol
thats pushing it a little close.
centered PEI would see us at 2.0 PR and 286 CFM which would allow for a max psi of 13.5 before stepping off the island.
still, this thing can flow 30 lb/min, which is 429CFM, but as you can see, we're at the choke line and maxed out on wheel speed at this point.
hmm..
compressor-wise, we're pretty close to the hairy edge, but at the same time, we can comfortably make it work without going apeshit on boost.
that will require a bigger trim.
still wondering where a .63 turbine will spool at with 749 CCs.. no math for that, sadly.. just a guesstimation.. can "guess" 6000rpm or so.. but this will be a dyno and street test.
started the port and polish on the compressor.
got the casting bumps, seams and boogers all gone.. started to polish and found out i'm missing the drive end for my damn dremel extension.. which really pisses me off since i KNOW i had it just a month or so ago.. but wasn't using it..
so, i only got a tiny bit of the outlet polished up.. but the whole length is sanded smooth all the way to the scroll.
cleaned the wheels a bit.. waiting for money to get magic elixer to dunk my shit.
as far as the intercooler, it fits so perfectly it's like it was made for it. fits under the tank with only the brackets having been sliced off. will build a plenum for this.. after i figure out a path to convert to EFI ( using CBR1000RR TBs, probably..) then i'll fab a final version.. in the beginning here tho, may just blow thru the carbs and see how that works. otta work perfectly fine.
you can barely see the IC tank thru the ram-air pocket
the goal is to fab a pan up the IC sits on that directs ram-air up thru the core.. a small duct will be fabbed to direct the heated air from the IC to.. somewhere it won't bother anything. lol
REALLY wanna use all carbon fiber, but, we'll see what i can work with initially.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
  
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted August 19, 2010 09:10 PM
cool project WH!!!!!
thanks or posting the pix and narrative. 
maybe a workbench would make yr life a lill easier??
sturdy yardsale table???
just a thought 
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted August 19, 2010 09:20 PM
NP Karl!
oh, YES indeed i'd die for a bench, but i simply don't have the room. i could probably boot the Kx125 motor off, but as soon as i get a power valve for it, it's going back together!
the next house will have a bigger garage for sure. it is an absolute necessity. THAT, or if i can get the shop going next year, i'll do my builds there.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted August 20, 2010 06:37 PM
started some test fitment tonight.. have the bike ripped into pieces.. haha.
we'll see what i learn.
already found out 2 things.
A. the radii of th honda headers is WAY off and can get squeezed in a bunch for room to clear the radiator.
B i found a new way top mount the intercooler which is sorta more gooderish, but not the bestest but only slightly more betterish that the original okish mounting orientation thats still not that badish.
wish i had a bike lift table
taking pics. we'll see here.. maybe i learn a lil something good and can get something accomplished.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted August 20, 2010 10:15 PM
absolutely LOVE how i have misplaced the wastegate for the turbo.
found one that matched. sorta.. but it's for the 13g. tho i might be able to make it work.
found misc parts from other turbos.
not wastegate for a TB22.
total poop.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted August 21, 2010 03:49 AM
Whitey, looks good man, I'm proud of you. Most of the technical stuf is over my head...go figure. But I will leave you with words to live by when it comes to going fast and pushing the boundaries of not only what you've ever experienced but the bike too:
Start small, start slow. Its easy to want to go 200+ your first weekend out but it may not happen. Its more important to go out there, make sure everything is stable, a/f looks good, review your logs and then strike. I just don't want to see you trash your motor with so much hours into it. If you need any help let me know, I owe you for the help you gave me at Loring.
As for the bike lift, hit up Craigslist, seen some go pretty cheap....like Shiphteey/Whitey cheap. Considering the kind of work you're doing and the hours you're gonna have to put in it will be well worth it. If you're in a smaller city you may need to hunt in the larger city listings surrounding you.
Good luck!
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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ZRXDean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted August 21, 2010 05:22 AM
Great project Whitey, good luck. -Dean
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted August 21, 2010 05:58 PM
el cheapo lift is some 2x4s, plywood, and screws scavanged from the job site
how effective will the a2a cooler be up over the hot motor? maybe get a co2 spraybar for lsr? paintball tanks are cheap 
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted August 21, 2010 08:22 PM
dean, ali, thank ya guys.
ali.. man ya put things itno perspective.. i DO want to go out and run 8 million mph.. but i know thats not gonna happen.. in the back of my mine i am saying "pace yourself" but in a way, i guess i'm not.. still need alot of stuff tho. data logging stuff included.. as i keep saying, it's all a money thing..once i can score an LM1 or whatever, some gauges and start actually *investing* in this then i'll feel a bit better as well. you figure, the motor was free and between the turbo and intercooler i have $90.. so this is a cheap build so far!
which i love, too.. lol
but i assure you i'll do my best to take my time and get my lsr addiction kicked off safely and correctly.. would love for you ( and the rest of my bikeland family) to be there for my first race.
you KNOW you owe me absolutely nothing.. man, you brought me on something i'll cherish for the rest of my life.. for that, i can never repay YOU.. so, don't think you're indebted to me!
as far as ali/whitey cheap tables, i'm down.. i would build a wooden one but i simply have NO room at all here and a car has to go in most nights.
even if i had a lift table it'd have to go outside probably
scott, i'll build a pan the IC sits on to direct ram air into the core
should be MORE than enough room to do that, and build a "hat" to direct he hot air away from everything and to.. somewhere..
well.. did make a bit of progress tonight.. just.. a bit. lol
reset my suspension which requires me to remove my exhaust. perfect excuse to et in there and test fit stuff..
looked at a second option for IC mounting.. waiting to see what the flowrate is on this thing so i can see if i can cut it down yet or not.. probably van.
inlet lines right up if i do it this way and run the charge piping thru the ram-air hole.
i knew the radii was off on the pipes.. not by alot.. stock pipes are 50*, honda headers are 75*..
i'll have to bend them into place.. don't want to cut/weld them.. being this is a load-bearing manifold and i'm not sure what grade stainless it is, i'd rather not have welds all over it.
was playing with mounting heights..
for those of ya who are not 100% in tune to turbo stuff, the GOAL is to have the turbo as close to the head as possible. this ensures high exhaust velocity ( thru higher EGT) and you have the option to gravity feed the oil back into the pan from the turbo.
not so sure i can do this. .the option for low turbos is to pump the oil out into the pan, but i really don't wanna do that. a pump is one more thing that can fail on me.. and more weight.
heres some pics of that.. this guy turbo'd this ZX7R ( not sure where it's at.. somewhere overseas.. screenshot these off a youtube video) and you can see the oil pump behind the turbo next to the wastegate.
he obviously doesn't care about running bodywork either.. that, or hes gonna chop hoes for the air filter and all. which i don't like nor want to do.
you can see how low it is tho..
if there was no pump, pooling oil in the CHRA would get past the shaft seals and make the bike smoke like a champ. both on the compressor side and exhaust side.
heres my pic of the lowest possible mounting spot.. which i really would rather not do.
heres up a bit more...
gotta move the radiator forward a bit at this point.
at this point, the bodywork will need modified to clear the radiator.
higher still.. can clock the housings in such a manner as to not have to move the radiator much more than what i already did.
heres from the valvecover down.. you can see if i do it right, i should be able to bring the charge piping right up thru and minimize material use and pressure drop.
zip-ties in place, i threw the plastics on for an idea of fitment and clearances.
chances are, this will be the height at which i mount the snail.
not high enough to gravity feed i think.. but i might get lucky, too. the chra is over the oil pan at this point, but the drain will probably return in the sump and not the top of the pan.. but thats ok.
heres an idea of the motor layout and turbo position.
AND.. just in case i have to flip the IC..
so close, yet so far away.. lol
still need ton of stuff.
but this is a start.. not too bad of a start i think.
i figure between this and engineering a way for EFI to work, those otta be the worst of the fabrication and "thinking"
tuning, cam timing and all the other stuff shouldn't be too much of a hassle.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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