Stuart Racing
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posted July 03, 2010 02:11 PM
 Edited By: Stuart Racing on 3 Jul 2010 22:12
10 miles on new bottom end
Well I had a rod spin a bearing #3. So went ahead and replaced ALL bottom end mains and rod bearings And 1 new rod. Took it out after a lot of heat cycles and rode it for about 9 to 10 miles before the bottom end started making a rattling noise, not like rod knocking but sounds like the whole crank is making noise. They mech. said he had Falicon just pressure clean and polish the journals. He did put the shim in the oil pressure relief valve like has been posted here. Sounds like no problems at idle and up to 2500 rpms. After that you can here/feel the bottom end rattle/knock.Fresh clean dino oil10w40 to break in the bearings.
Any ideas what coulda happened. First 5 miles were fine, riding in 5th-6th gear at about 6000 rpms up and down, turned around to return home got about 3 miles back when I heard a slight rattle then the oil pressure light started to flicker, clutch in and key off and coasted to a stop....The guy/mech. is totally baffled and said all was cleaned spotless....????????
Thanks..
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NOX
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posted July 03, 2010 06:23 PM
Is this the same guy that messed up your last motor?
My opionion, is it needs to go right back to him, and he needs to be the one to touch it and make it right, unless he starts blaming it on you......
What brand of oil filter was on it......., my local shop stopped carrying frams because of oil pressure issues.......
check the pick up, and the pan. Cut the filter open first, see what is in it....., if you find stuff in the filter, you know its done.......
Also, did you change out the oil pump, oil pump gear, etc.
Lots of crap can hide in there.......
Best of luck...........
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KZScott
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posted July 03, 2010 07:41 PM
were the rods sized? did he use new bolts? clearance on rods and mains? how was clearance checked? did the shim pop out of the relief valve?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
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Stuart Racing
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posted July 04, 2010 05:44 AM
NOX, yes this is the same mech. as di my trans. install and did the dyno session that burnt out my clutch that clogged the oil pickup that caused the rod/bearing failure....So he said he would eat labor and I bought the parts.....Now this happens....He is a good mech.alot of roadracing motor building experiance, lots of equipment(flow bench,clean room,ect.ect)..He is an Irish dude,deep accent....And he is baffled....
Scott,
No new rod bolts, I asked him about Plati gauging....so I thought he would have done all the propper sizing of journals/rods,ect.ect.ect...... Maybe this motor is too big...He is very indept at the 600cc motors in roadracing....I bought all the parts, compleate bearings for bottom end (he gave me the part #`s/colors to get),complete gasket set, one new rod....Motor hasen`t been torn down yet to see if the shim fell off or not..... He better not blame the problem on me ,I only rode it 10 miles out of his shop.....
Than you....
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KZScott
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posted July 04, 2010 05:48 AM
Edited By: KZScott on 4 Jul 2010 13:51
if he used plastigauge take it to someone else (who knows how to properly MEASURE everything. you need a bore gauge, and 2 mics to do the job properly)
seeing how it has to come apart, your rod bolts will more than likely have more than 3-4 tqs on them now, so will need to be replaced. when you replace rod bolts your cap may move, so the big end will now need to be sized as the bolts are the only thing that keeps the rod and cap square. no dowel pins  .
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Stuart Racing
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posted July 04, 2010 08:34 AM
Excellent info.And I will tell him about and see what he says....But I can`t afford to have someone else get into this.... He will have this until he gets it right..... Hell I didn`t know you couldn`t use the rod bolts more than a couple of times.....
Thanks for the insight on this.....
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KZScott
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posted July 04, 2010 01:00 PM
np, what has served me well in the past using stock rods and bolts:
mic each journal and use the bore gauge in the cases (tqd but empty)
for mains, you just pick what shells will give you the closest to the clearance you want, maybe a good idea to get a few extras as they are all a little different and you can mix n match to get exact clearances, mic them to be sure of thickness in the middle(you need a ball tip on the mic for this). try to pair similar sizes.
for rods pic the clearance you want, you know the journal diameter, and shell thickness, so have the rods sized to give uniform clearance, the rods may need to be slightly different sizes. put new bolts in, size them, then install, only a couple-3 tqs on the bolts.
this is whats been working for me so far
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Stuart Racing
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posted July 04, 2010 03:40 PM
Edited By: Stuart Racing on 4 Jul 2010 23:42
Well I will tell him about this thread and see if I can get him to check it out for some information on rod/main bearing install. All the motors I ever rebuilt were roller bearing motors.....Much appreciation on the info Scott....I`ll see how this turns out....
Oh NOX, Kawasaki OEM oil filter....
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kawa74
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posted July 04, 2010 07:53 PM
did you replace oil lines and oil cooler , lots of sharpnel gets circulated and hides in cooler and imbeds in lines ? can never flush all the crap out , don't gamble , cheap insurance to replace all , pump too?
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Stuart Racing
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posted July 05, 2010 05:07 AM
There never was really any shrapnel...It just spun a bearing initially at low rpm. and just made a knocking noise at idle when I shut her down.....It`s just strange that the motor only made 10 miles with new mains and rod bearings.....But if ALL wasn`t spec`ed out exactly right it might make sence....
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SteddyTeddy
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posted July 05, 2010 05:49 AM
Sounds like some crap was hiding and got in the new bearings. Sorry to hear this Paul. This is why I do my own work. Then it's only me to blame.
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Stuart Racing
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posted July 05, 2010 08:32 AM
Yes Ted I hear ya on that. I will be doing it myself if I can ever get this straightened out. I just didn`t have the time and had a few extra bucks.... He swears it was cleaned up good....But 10 miles to grind out the bearings.....Yikes......Waiting to hear from him soon....
Thanks Ted....
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NINJA12
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posted July 06, 2010 07:04 PM
was the crank cleaned?
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Stuart Racing
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posted July 07, 2010 05:12 AM
Yes, he said it was put into this machine that super steam cleans the crank....But he just called and said he thinks he used the wrong bearings from a different year bike(2000) my bike is a 2002....Thinks the bearings lock in tabs are wrong for my bike.....
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NOX
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posted July 07, 2010 02:52 PM
OMG!!!!!!
Wait, are the bearings all not the same?
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Stuart Racing
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posted July 07, 2010 05:39 PM
Edited By: Stuart Racing on 8 Jul 2010 01:52
I don`t know NOX but thats what he is saying is what happened but I have not researched it yet to see if all bottom end mains and rod bearings for all years are the same or not....
P.S.
JUST DID THE RESEARCH AND YES HE DID ORDER THE WRONG BEARINGS FOR MY BIKE/MOTOR....2000 bearings ARE different....Checked part #`s against what was ordered to what year my motor is....Luckily I shut it down quick, quick enough I won`t know yet.....
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NOX
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posted July 08, 2010 06:03 AM
Paul, its your bike.........
But, if you are not going to do it yourself......
I would have someone else do it......, and this guy should be paying the full bill.
I would be so upset at the situation.
Good luck.
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thutch26
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posted July 08, 2010 08:17 AM
sounds a little like my situation.. I took my builder a perfectly running 204hp 2mill zx14 motor to put a brand new set of Carillo's in it. Well i finally got it back 2months later and got it installed. I put 250 very easy street miles on it and changed the oil and took it to the dyno and grenaded the entire crank. rods and mains!! and it's all my fault! wtf?
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SteddyTeddy
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posted July 08, 2010 10:46 AM
Edited By: SteddyTeddy on 8 Jul 2010 18:49
Man I would really be pissed about that! I grew up with my dad being a motorcycle mechanic. I spent every day off school including my summers in the shop working next to him for 9 years. At the age of 12 he told me that I was already better than 1/2 the guys he worked with! That's why I say if you can do the work yourself, DO IT! A good motorcycle mechanic that actually knows what he's doing is a rare find! Most dealers and shops just don't want to pay for the top quality techs.
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Stuart Racing
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posted July 08, 2010 12:19 PM
NOX,
Well at the time I had more money than time...So thats why I had him do it....
Yes he is picking up the tab this time...I can`t just walk away from the money spent so far and try to dio it my self...But this is a lesson learned....You would not believe how sorry he is for what happened....
Ted.,
I was brought up about the same way....This guy explained to me the way he plati gauged the bearings twice to get the correct readings...And he isn`t waisting time getting it fixed...I went by there today to drop off a cut oil pan and he showed the motor/rods,crank....stressed to him to clean out everything....Like I said "a lesson learned"...
thutch26,
WOW brother...250 break in miles....And boom....What was his explanation???? What came apart small end of the rods or bottom or both??? I feel your pain man....Like I said before,I hate dyno`s....My whole situation started with a dyno session....Burnt up plates,clogged oil pick up screen....
Thanks for the reply`s....
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thutch26
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posted July 08, 2010 05:15 PM
he told me the mains were dry the other day... well the damn motor had oil in it and thats a fact... He was kinda trying to put it off on the k&p billet filter being clogged and restricting flow but there was no oil light that came on and i cleaned it regularly.. Well I ran that filter all last eason with no probs. and got over 150 passes with it! Ryan Schnitz dyno'd the bike .. u'd think he'd notice an oil light come on,,, I think a rod bearing let go and caused the rest of the bearing damage... Well I bought a new crank and 1 carillo rod, all new bearings, and the crank is at marine now getting fluted,lightened and balanced... honestly.... I really dont expect it to live this time either... but we'll c! i really dont have many other options
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Stuart Racing
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posted July 08, 2010 06:07 PM
WOW....Hang in there one more time.....Hell you are using all killer parts....What brand oil ya using???? I sticking with the stock oil filter and I did do the oil pressure releif valve mod. Good luck to you and I`m knockin on wood....
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thutch26
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posted July 08, 2010 07:06 PM
yeah i have the rpm relief valve the muzzy billet oil pump plate, osr's billet balancer shafts, I break the motor in with just castrol 20w50 and i run mobil1 in it all season.
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NOX
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posted July 09, 2010 07:42 AM
Why 20w50?
Did you build the motor to larger tolerances?
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Stuart Racing
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posted July 09, 2010 10:03 AM
What would you have put in there? Just to break in the bearings.
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