INTRA
Expert Class
Posts: 307
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posted December 08, 2002 01:26 AM
damage report
Well,no signs of detonation,plugs were good,tops of pistons were good,so too much nos??Maybe,the #3 piston had the top of the valve stuck into the surface,scarring up the cylinder,it looks like it spit a shim and floated a valve.I drove it back to the pit area after I re-started the motor pulling off the strip and heading back to the pit area,and that's when the motor locked.The head is trashed,so is one cam,and on the head where the spark plug sticks through,you can't even get the plug out(#3),also,the rod will have to be replaced and maybe crank bearings.Highland's told me that all of the 12's they ran big shots on had spit shims and floated valves,I guess the springs can't handle it.They told me they have been running one 12 with heavy dudy springs and different shims and have yet to have any problems w/that bike.I need to know if anyone has info where I can get better springs/shims,Adams performance?Carpenter Racing??That might be what I need.
  
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 08, 2002 01:48 AM
Joey,
Lee will sell you some hd Busa springs and some spacers. That is what I am running now. Sorry to hear about yr engine 
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted December 08, 2002 07:04 AM
busa Springs????? Dude that is why the hell you cant go 8.99!!!!!!!!!! You have Freaking Busa parts in there slowing you down!!! hahahahahahh....
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 08, 2002 10:01 AM
well, for Busa springs, they aren't even that ugly! 
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted December 08, 2002 11:16 AM
Yea I had Lees setup my head for HD application but I never put the big cams in, just wanted it setup to handle it if I ever decided to go that route. What are you spraying, wet? No problems on dry, but I've seen at least 6 bikes now pop at the track on the Muzzys stealth setup, every one spits a shim, or worse. Sorry to hear about your problems, at least the upside is the season is ~over so you have time to rework it. Damn
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INTRA
Expert Class
Posts: 307
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posted December 08, 2002 04:26 PM
Carl,is that all I need?How much?Bergie,it's a 100hp dry shot.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 08, 2002 05:31 PM
When I put in the Lee's cams, i used my stock valves (refaced) and those springs & spacers. Call Lee he'll fix you up!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted December 08, 2002 05:52 PM
Ask Pierre (Bear Racing) AT Gainesville he had a valve / Piston Collision! The Owner of Highlands also Felt that he had spit a Shim! Looking at the Pistons, you could see that the Valve Pockets were a few Thousands off center! Bear's people thought the problem may have been the 10 Degrees retard was only at 100% Throttle and maybe the rider let off a little and the explosion force may have caused the valve to the side a little and then hit the off set on the piston!
What ever happened, same type results! Seems like making over 300HP is not a "Good Thing"! With shim under Bucket, I would like to know how it happens also!
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INTRA
Expert Class
Posts: 307
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posted December 08, 2002 08:33 PM
For sure,my first stage will have to be cut in half,wheelies were unavoidable the way my kit was set up.Of course packing in an x-tra lb 1/2 in the bottle and pressure probably well over 1000 psi w/no air filters in front,38 38 jets,this bike had close to 300hp,but I couldn't hold both stages on long enough to lay down any good times or mph,if I decide to keep this bike,it will be the same hp.Guess it's time for some busa springs.
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted December 09, 2002 12:32 AM
yea I think smaller jetting may be the key to quicker ETs in this case. I think I'd have a hard time trying to get twin 38s down the track too. I found that hitting the 34 pill in 1st is do-able if you get the launch right and man that cuts ET like Ginsu knife! Maybe next year I will try a smaller pill on a WOT switch like a 18 or 24 jet, then kick on a 34 or 36 jet with the button as soon as possible. I don't want to over do it, after all how fast (or should I say quick) do I really want to go? Just shy of breaking anything is my goal.. 8.60s? Definitely possible on a regular basis with the right setup...
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted December 09, 2002 09:27 AM
Have yall heard about the new nitrous controller Schnitz is about to start selling? It's more compact that their previous one and should work well with dry shots. I think I may give it a try next year. To me, it sounds simpler than a dual setup.
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted December 09, 2002 02:30 PM
Wow Berg, you were hitting the Nitrous in 1st gear sometimes?!?!?!
I thought that was a definite no-no. Something about hurting the crank bearings??
maybe I was on drugs......
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted December 09, 2002 02:34 PM
By the way!!
Where's the Catby input on this?!?! I'd think Kevin would have to be on top of something like this to be sure his customers aren't stepping on the proverbial landmine.
Spring pressures would be cool. Are Busa springs the only thing that will work?
And, is it the weak SHIM that is the problem, or is it the spring that doesn't have enough pressure, or both???
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted December 09, 2002 03:47 PM
CATBY, LOL,,,, almost forgot about that one. LOL.......
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted December 09, 2002 03:51 PM
VH, I heard that pass, and there was no Boom at all, so I would also lean towards the shim being spit, I did not hear a backfire or anything like that, just the horrible dropped valve sound, that I know from first hand or should I say ear experiance.....
Mad Mike
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IslandRider
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted December 11, 2002 08:00 AM
Looking for opinions.
I dropped an exhaust valve due to spraying, clutch let go, overreved and a keeper came loose. Head is at Lazer Porting and I asked about beefier springs. He said stock was good enough unless I was going to spin the motor faster than factory redline. Makes sense to me since the valves are shut on the power stroke and they were engineered from the factory.
Then I read Vincent's post about the explosion and I realized the way I have the MPS kill box wired the NOS stays on while the engine is "off" and there is a pop and flame out the pipe every shift. So I am wondering if I am over powering the stock exhuast valve spring with the unburned NOS getting ignited with the valve in the open position causing the keeper/shim to get displaced resulting in piston contact with the valve? Is everyone is dropping an exhaust valve?
I went ahead and ordered a high performance valve spring kit that comes w/titanium retainers from Carolina Cycle just to be safe.
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted December 11, 2002 08:40 AM
Any details on the busa springs?
Stock Springs, intake or exhaust? Are they the same?
What type of shims?
This seems to be a common problem with the spray.
Maybe we should document the fix.
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted December 11, 2002 10:25 AM
Been busy as hail...
I'll come back and read it all later 
...catby...
Might have saved the head if you DIDN'T TRY TO RIDE IT BACK!!!!!!!!
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted December 11, 2002 10:27 AM
I'm pretty sure they are aftermarket springs that happen to fit the busa and the 12. I've got half a set sitting on the shelf that came from Lee. My bike never pops when I shift on spray. Perhaps your kill time is set too slow? I'm using Dale Walker's Holeshot box instead of the MPS.
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BA
Pro
Posts: 1592
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posted December 11, 2002 01:32 PM
 Edited By: BA on 13 Dec 2002 19:14
Kevin, your little plug about saving the head and then using CAPS about the ride back is just TFF! (albeit true)
Kick a man while he's down why don't ya?? 
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fastestr1
Expert Class
Posts: 300
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posted December 11, 2002 09:54 PM
So then I stock valve springs are to weak and float at 11.500-12.000 which lets the piston hit the valve and spitting the shim.
Krexken how much NOS are you spraying and what is your kill set too. We have 6 bikes on NOS in Hawaii with eletric kills and they all pop on spray when they shift.
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Black 02, 8.99 @ 161.95 motor on NOS
Put one knee down for the curves and both knees down for GOD
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kingzx12r
Expert Class
woo hoo
Posts: 223
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posted December 13, 2002 04:20 PM
I have my bike at 280 hp but no air shifter, I had the MPS on for a couple weekends but the popping scares me so I took it off and went back to footshifting. I agree the airshifter allows freespin for a split second and likely floats the poor head valves. Personally I will stay with foot shifting I might loose a tenth o two but I have still been able to ride home touch wood.
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted December 13, 2002 05:09 PM
Edited By: RAC4IT on 13 Dec 2002 17:09
agreed.. bag the airshifter you can go solid 8s without it
if nothing else and you must have it use it only on the 1-2 then footshift the rest
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cowboy
Pro
Posts: 1061
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posted December 14, 2002 10:55 AM
quote:
agreed.. bag the airshifter you can go solid 8s without it
if nothing else and you must have it use it only on the 1-2 then footshift the rest
you only say this because after the 1-2 shift your shifters have been missing shifts!
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted December 14, 2002 11:24 AM
yep! dont need it!
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