Y2KZX12R
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posted August 21, 2009 09:33 AM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 21 Aug 2009 17:47
218 MPH RUN LOG
Here's a look at the run data from Doug's 218.9 mph pass at Loring.
I thought some of you guys would like to see it... ???
Notice the apparent wheelie Doug must have done in 1st gear where he got off the throttle momentarily. This bike is stock wheelbase !!!
Also notice the Airbox pressure in green and the Fat a/f ratio of 11.58 going threw the traps.
Also notice how the injectors (rpm) shut off after the throttle is closed for 2 seconds.
This is the "throttle back on" abruptness that used to piss me off and everyone was feeling back in 2000 when exiting a corner at 8000-10,000 rpms. The only real fix was to make the engine very rich when the injectors came back on mid corner so it was lazy and soft and didn't try to highside you. Lots of fuel in the 2 lowest columns above 4500 rpms helped. After a while you learned to live with it.
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entropy
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posted August 21, 2009 10:27 AM
there is a lot of info on this log, and i'm thinking there are a couple ways to gain significant mph 
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ZRXDean
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posted August 21, 2009 11:33 AM
Nice log, well done Jim. What was the ambient pressure in millibars?
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KZScott
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posted August 21, 2009 04:21 PM
very interesting!
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Y2KZX12R
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posted August 22, 2009 04:51 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 22 Aug 2009 13:04
Dean, I'm finally caught up from vacation.... Thanks for the "package" they are awesome ! I'm not sure about the okra thou. Kinda different. Is that a southern thing? 
I'll call you on the zx10 head this week and we can discuss it.
The ambient pressure was 6.4 MB and the airbox was 25.9 on that run. Those pressures are not actual but the change is accurate. In other words the 6.4 mb isn't the actual air pressure and the 25.9 isn't the actual airbox pressure but its the rise in pressure when you subtract the ambient pressure.
So the ramair was adding 19.5 mb of net pressure to the airbox. about .28 psi or about 4.6 HP. That's about 2.3 hp per 10 mb of added airbox pressure. about what Kawi claimed in the silver book. On a stock motored zx12r I suspect you would see 30mb of airbox pressure from the ramair. But this engine lowers or "uses up" about 10 mb of air box pressure from the ramair.
So I think this engine/ramair intake system could benefit from a slightly larger frontal area at the inlet. ??
I had to set up a voltage scale. So I calibrated the sensor as zero being ambient pressure at my house (900ft above sea level) and took a voltage reading, then I pulled 10" of vacuum on the sensor and took a voltage reading. Converted 10" of vacuum to mb and that gave me a voltage scale. I set up the LM-1 voltage scale to go to something like 0-64 MB.
We could figure out the actual absolute pressure but it doesn't really matter. I was just curious about the airbox pressure rise.
I really should have made a damper for the sensor instead of using the smoothing in the log-works software. The pressure waves from the engine in the airbox make the data look like a HUGE LA earthquake on a seismograph.
Next time a small damping chamber like a soda bottle with a small hole in the end on the end of the hose in the airbox should dampen the pressure waves and require less software smoothing.
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Shane661
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posted August 22, 2009 05:55 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 22 Aug 2009 13:56
That really looks good, Jim. I keep dragging my feet on the logger for the 14. It looks like I will be able to get some help in the forum here, though. I have a DL-32 system.
Is there any way to smooth out the pulses in the airbox (instead of dampen them at the sensor)? Do you think they affect power?
Shane
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Y2KZX12R
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posted August 22, 2009 07:33 AM
Ok Karl, the map with mrx-01 and an A/F ratio of 12.4 is as follows from 500-12,500 rpm...
4
0
-13
-15
-3
-2
-8
-20
-8
8
4
1
6
5
8
-2
8
13
8
5
1
2
-3
0
0
Shane, i suppose there would be a way to dampen the airbox pressure pulsations. But I don't think there would be any advantage. The airbox is "tuned" to specific resonant frequencies to aide in engine VE at specific rpms. So this airbox resonance is helpful..... at certain rpms. However, at other rpms the individual cylinder frequency and the engine frequencies are out of sync with what the engine likes and it can cost power. So developing an airbox that takes advantage of these variations in engine resonant frequencies is what all these flapper doors and gadgets in the intake track are trying to do.
So I don't think you really want to dampen them, at least not when there adding power to the engine.
My goal is just a good steady pressure reading.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted August 22, 2009 07:38 AM
So we now need to know whats the max possible ram recovery pressure per sq in per mph?
And whats the % loss seen typically from theoretical max?
Doug would know.... being in the airplane industry.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted August 22, 2009 07:42 AM
Heres somthing I just dug up....
http://www.melmoth2.com/texts/NACA%20inlet%20sizing.htm
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ZRXDean
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posted August 22, 2009 03:06 PM
Thanks Jim, very cool stuff. Some day I plan to run a NA 1000, and I'm always curious about the efficiency of the KHI ram air stuff.
This gardening thing is kinda new to us, we have so much okra. I can't say I'm a huge fan either unfortunately
I'll call your shop this week.
Dean
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dougmeyer
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posted August 22, 2009 05:46 PM
Careful reading Peter Garrison (Y2's link). He's quite accurate, but hard to follow sometimes. I've met him-he's a REAL tech head
It's quite well established that ram air pressure in psi is equal to the air density in lbs/cu.ft. times the velocity squared divided by 4,311
For example, air at a standard density of .076 lb/cu.ft. with a vehicle speed of 100mph would be:
.076x(100x100) / 4,311 or.... 760/4,311 = .1762 PSI now, that .18 psi is "best case". There are losses due to the shape and entrance design of the inlet.
You can, however use that number as a multiplier against the engine air flow to calc the hp increased
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chavcat
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posted August 22, 2009 05:57 PM
Jim - from your comment regarding potential benefit from a slightly larger frontal inlet area, has Han's snorkel which has a larger inlet area however less volume in resonator etc. ever been tested back to back in these LSR'S?
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entropy
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posted August 22, 2009 06:09 PM
I have a Hans snorkle on the shelf, and have been meaning to try it out, back to back at an LSR event.
However, it's a PITA to change snorkles so i haven't gotten around to it.
Jim,
where in the airbox did you mount the pressure sensor??
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dubious
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posted August 22, 2009 07:27 PM
Edited By: dubious on 23 Aug 2009 03:36
quote:
Careful reading Peter Garrison (Y2's link). He's quite accurate, but hard to follow sometimes. I've met him-he's a REAL tech head
It's quite well established that ram air pressure in psi is equal to the air density in lbs/cu.ft. times the velocity squared divided by 4,311
For example, air at a standard density of .076 lb/cu.ft. with a vehicle speed of 100mph would be:
.076x(100x100) / 4,311 or.... 760/4,311 = .1762 PSI now, that .18 psi is "best case". There are losses due to the shape and entrance design of the inlet.
You can, however use that number as a multiplier against the engine air flow to calc the hp increased
LOL
Doug, thats pretty cool information there.... it did not get the acknowledgement it deserves, as it likely went right over most heads, most would not even think of it, much less know how to apply that LOL
I am still here lurking and learning...LOL
PS, I am speaking for the population in general, not those specificaly involved with this thread.
Just letting you know you have our attention and appreciate the input!
Lyle
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Y2KZX12R
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posted August 23, 2009 03:23 AM
quote:
Jim - from your comment regarding potential benefit from a slightly larger frontal inlet area, has Han's snorkel which has a larger inlet area however less volume in resonator etc. ever been tested back to back in these LSR'S?
Maybe we can get Karl to try out that Hans unit at Texas after a few baseline runs.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted August 23, 2009 03:28 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 23 Aug 2009 11:29
Karl, the sensor is a spare map sensor for the zx12r. It was mounted near the outside of the left rubber duct boot. I poked a hole in the rubber boot and ran a 3/16" vacuum line threw the hole and down into the airbox before the air filters.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted August 23, 2009 03:35 AM
quote:
Careful reading Peter Garrison (Y2's link). He's quite accurate, but hard to follow sometimes. I've met him-he's a REAL tech head
It's quite well established that ram air pressure in psi is equal to the air density in lbs/cu.ft. times the velocity squared divided by 4,311
For example, air at a standard density of .076 lb/cu.ft. with a vehicle speed of 100mph would be:
.076x(100x100) / 4,311 or.... 760/4,311 = .1762 PSI now, that .18 psi is "best case". There are losses due to the shape and entrance design of the inlet.
You can, however use that number as a multiplier against the engine air flow to calc the hp increased
So the size of the frontal area of the inlet would determine the max volume of air? I think the frontal area needs to be increased due to the air volume that this engine consumes compared to the stock engine.
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shiphteey
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posted August 23, 2009 06:12 AM
Still trying to get the hang of things with reading the logger, interpreting the data and APPLYING changes to pick up speed....that being said, one parameter I was logging was airbox pressure by drilling and tapping a hole on the left inspection plate. Hose is a few inches long and hooks right into the LMA3 front opening.
According to the log on the starting line I was at about -49 psi. I had to play with the throttle due to the type of progressive controller I was running (read: Inexpensive).
10 seconds into the run I saw -.65 psi, safe to say the nitrous was already coming on. 2-3 seconds later as more nitrous came on I was at about -.80 psi and ran like that with it going mid -90s for a good chunck of 6th gear. I had to smooth it out a bit to try and make sense of the data.
I'm not sure if any of this information can be tied in as this I run nitrous and my only non-nitrous pass at Loring was getting rid of old pump gas, forgetting to hit record on the logger and running out of gas at the traps anyways.
A noteworthy point, this being my last run I was low on nitrous pressure which was evident at the starting line and when looking at my log I came through the traps a bit richer than in the earlier runs. Suffice to say it would have been a 232 mph pass on the rev limiter if it didn't go fat at the end, I was pretty close to the rev limiter.
My airbox set-up is pretty normal. Stock snorkel, tubes and airbox. Just plugged up the holes running BMC race filters.
I wonder at what speeds going to a larger snorkel would be beneficial, even if it did end up sacrificing drive through the gears. Also since we had good tailwinds for most of Sunday, would one necessarily deduct 10+ mph from trap speed to determine what speed air was hitting the snorkel?
My head hurts.
A.
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2000redrocket
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posted August 23, 2009 09:58 AM
to smooth out the readings on the sensor with out software try jaming a idle jet from a small cc bike in the sensor line. that is if you have any old skool parts laying around.
my wego3 has a earthquake line for its map reading when i logg it. it changed a while ago looking more eratic and then i changed the sensor due to the bike acting up driving home one night. it did fix the issue but now i am thinking of running a seperat sensor for map since i think dual duty on one sensor may have its output overloaded.
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dougmeyer
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posted August 23, 2009 12:36 PM
Edited By: dougmeyer on 23 Aug 2009 20:37
Right. Inlet size has no effect on pressure, only volume. So, you can easily compute how big an opening is needed to flow X cfm at a given speed and air density. This is what Garrison was talking about in figuring the inlet size for his aircraft, "Melmoth".
For those non aviation types- the inlet duct he is referring to is the triangular shaped NACA (pronounced na-ka) duct near the back edge of the cowling, not the big scoop under the propeller, which is for the cooling air. Melmoth is a one-off plane which he designed and built about 20 years ago, and uses as a kind of test bed for all sorts of theories and ideas.
By the way,
It's called a NACA duct because the shape was invented and refined by the National Advisory Committee on Aeronautics in the late 40's.
Learn more here: http://www.flyingmag.com/technicalities/500/the-scoop-on-the-naca-scoop-page2.html
Hey those shifts look pretty crisp, eh?
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Shane661
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posted August 23, 2009 12:39 PM
Jim, you were explaining to me why it wouldn't work to use the existing sensor in the box, but I forgot the details. Could you elaborate?
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entropy
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posted August 23, 2009 12:58 PM
Edited By: entropy on 23 Aug 2009 21:23
Loring______Loring
Jim map_____Karl map
1427________1427
AF=12.4_____AF=12.1
oxy fuel______not oxy fuel
430cc inj_____375cc injectors
4___________0_______500rpm
0___________10
-13_________0
-15_________-37
-3__________-42
-2__________-32
-8__________-25
-20_________-25
-8__________-21
8___________-24
4___________-14_______5000rpm
1___________-11
6___________-7
5___________-6
8___________-7
-2__________-5________8,000rpm
8___________-3
13__________2
8___________2
5___________1______10,000rpm
1___________-1
2___________0
-3__________-1
0__________-1_______12,000rpm
0__________-1
Jim,
Man o' man, these maps are as different as night & day until 10.000rpm+
does yr bike have a DaveO mod'd ECU??
mine is running a ridgeracer mod'd only for revlimit
here is the log from my 212 pass:
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2000redrocket
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posted August 23, 2009 01:41 PM
ent was it you that got the first gear thing made normal ot was that someone else. i can not remember what year your bike is.
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entropy
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posted August 23, 2009 02:02 PM
2000rr, nope not me with any 1st gear thing, my sorry heap is a Y2000. Some day i gotta lift a finger about some cosmetics
RR why don't you do one 'o these LSR venues sometime, you'd have a ball!!!
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Shane661
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posted August 23, 2009 02:03 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 23 Aug 2009 22:05
He did Maxton... 
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