KZScott
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posted August 23, 2008 01:18 PM
so my bottle doesnt have a siphon tube, im going to make one out of steel tubing. theres a brass pipe fitting (pipe to pipe) in the valve that i can take out, ill just solder the tube to it and bend it to where i want. unless someone can tell me why that may not work?
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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KZScott
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posted August 23, 2008 04:24 PM
since i want to try nitrous before my steel lines get here, i got as much done as possible with the plastic lines. it will make it easier to make the steel lines when i get them, plus lets me mock up where everything will go. i need a couple fittings and its pretty much ready to go minus the fuel tank and wiring (tomorrow is going to be a wiring day  )
I ran as much as possible on the outside of the airbox. i believe this will ensure minimal airflow disruption when running just on motor. i dont need a bunch of stuff creating turbulence in the airbox and slowing me down. if i was running nitrous all the time it wouldnt be as big of a concearn. another reason to have as much as possible outside the airbox is safety. theres less chance of a line breaking inside the airbox if most of the line is outside the airbox. if i nitrous line breaks in the airbox i might melt a piston, if i break a line outside the airbox i just slow down and run rich.
i put the foggers on the back of the stacks, and drilled 8 holes in the airbox for my lines. i wrapped the lines in some plastic i took off of some wiring to prevent chafing and sealed it with silicone. (yes black would look better but all i had around was orange)
the lines i have kinda dictated where my nitrous solenoid went. i had planned on putting it up by the fuel solenoid, but it will work just fine where it is under the tank, no need of buying stuff i dont really need. i just need a fitting put on the end of the fuel line to connect it to the distrubution block, and a different fitting on the nitrous distribution block. i have lots of fuel line to run from the pump to the filter on the solenoid(red line). duct tape is holding everything where it has to be for now lol
some slight tank modification was required to fit the fuel distribution block where it is. a hammer did the trick. not pretty but effective :P
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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shane661
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posted August 23, 2008 05:09 PM
Definitely starting to look like a race bike.
When are you planning to spray it, and how much are you starting off with?
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KZScott
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posted August 23, 2008 06:12 PM
if everything is ready, next wknd during time trials at the track if i get a chance to play with my mapping first. 60 shot
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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ninja12
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posted August 23, 2008 11:25 PM
 Edited By: ninja12 on 24 Aug 2008 00:28
2 suggestion
1 safety wire the nozel together to prevent them from turning or make very sure they are tight.
2, i'd want the fuel solinoid closer to the distibution block to reduce the lean spike.
900 psi nitrous will get there before 6 psi fuel. The question is how long will it be lean.
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KZScott
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posted August 24, 2008 11:33 AM
good call, i never thought of safety wiring the foggers.
the line from the fuel solenoid will be about 5 inches, and the line from the nitrous solenoid will be 23 inches. do you still think the fuel line should be shorter? i might be able to get it down to 3-4
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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ninja12
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posted August 25, 2008 07:26 AM
Never ran nitrous that far.
Try it , you will see a lean spike on your lm-1 if the nitrous get there first. If the spike last too long for your comfort , you can make that call. My goal is usually to keep the fuel side as short as possible after the solenoid.
You won't have this problem but long fuel lines will get sucked dry when you get off the spray
and cause a extreme rich condition. 
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted August 25, 2008 02:24 PM
thx, ill definatly be keeping an eye on the first set of nitrous logs!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted September 01, 2008 03:39 PM
nitrous setup just about done. i was having a hell of a time trying different things to connect everything right by the fuel solenoid and having it fit nicely under the cover. this is what i came up with, with parts i had lying around. to keep the lean spike down i have the line about as short as i can go, and i reduced the size to a 3/16 line. since its on the fuel side, it doesnt matter that its copper
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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KZScott
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posted September 04, 2008 12:14 AM
Edited By: KZScott on 4 Sep 2008 01:16
everything is done except the fuel tank, and safety wiring the foggers, I "jumpered" the solenoids and they spray  had my bottle filled today
i believe this is how i wired everything, buts its 5am and i could be wrong. im just getting these pics uploaded from my phone before i go shower and go to bed :P
i didnt get a pic, but with just the fuel on, i can see why they run the nitrous thru it in the foggers to mix it up. with just fuel flowing its more or less a light trickle, like when you turn on a tap so its just a constant stream and more than dripping.... the nitrous atomizes the fuel nicely in theoery, not as nice as injectors, but pretty good
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
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posted September 04, 2008 01:41 AM
YIKES!
remind me to not be smoking when i visit yr shop 
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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KZScott
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posted September 04, 2008 07:07 AM
only the smoking of tires is allowed in the shop
got a few more things to finish today, and i get to test this out. racing tomorrow
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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VincentHill
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posted September 05, 2008 07:14 AM
Be careful of NOS Foggers! Take one apart and make sure it is not designed with a Long Needle seated against the Body st the tip! I had a set of those and they allowed the NOS pressure to push against the Fuel and in the end I had a DRY System. That is why I always use NX Foggers. They do not have this needle and are DRILLED through the Body so trhere is no Back Pressure against the Fuel side
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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KZScott
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posted September 08, 2008 02:43 PM
ill check it out Vincent, but i really doubt ill have problems. im just spraying a baby shot compared to you.
i get to rip it all apart anyway, my stuff from Gixx1300R arrived today
1/8 stainless steel lines and new brass compression fittings. ill feel much safer getting rid of those plastic lines!
thanks a lot man!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Nox
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posted September 08, 2008 03:45 PM
I am glad I read this stuff............
Keeps me from wanting to mess with it...........
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KZScott
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posted September 08, 2008 04:13 PM
oh come on, you know you want a huff of the giggle juice:P just think of what your bike would do with a simple 30 shot dry activaed just as the front wheel starts to settle back down.....
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Gixx1300R
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posted September 08, 2008 04:13 PM
You are very welcome. Now you will see why I sent 12 feet of line. Let me know if you need anything else
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KZScott
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posted September 15, 2008 07:35 PM
looking at my logs, the lean spike isnt much more than what i get when i airshift. not much different at all, so it doesnt worry me.
started replacing the plastic lines with the steel lines. 1 wknd risking breaking a line was enough, now it should be bullet proof when im done
the extra steel line will come in real handy for the dry kit
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
rgeorge
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posted September 15, 2008 09:14 PM
Edited By: rgeorge on 16 Sep 2008 05:17
KZ, as promised, here is a pic of my nozzle setup. Like your setup, everything is behind the intakes, so it doesn't interrupt airflow. The nitrous solenoid lives in the airbox connected directly to the distribution block. I expect it will give a nice firm hit. The fuel solenoid is outside the airbox.
The 3/16 SS lines are stiff and make changing jets a pain in the ass. I kinda wish I had 1/8th lines.
more pics coming soon.
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KZScott
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posted September 16, 2008 01:08 AM
looks good! but hard to work with. i didnt even need a tubing bender to make the lines last night. plus the smaller diameter lines should react faster.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
aliveagain
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posted September 16, 2008 05:09 AM
quote:
so my bottle doesnt have a siphon tube, im going to make one out of steel tubing. theres a brass pipe fitting (pipe to pipe) in the valve that i can take out, ill just solder the tube to it and bend it to where i want. unless someone can tell me why that may not work?
I used that brass fitting (compression) for my siphon tube.I bent the tube at a 45* angle and when tightening down, made sure the tube would always be in a downward angle from the valve discharge as it is mounted in the bike.
You have a shot of a solenoid and looks like a regulator next to it.I hope you will insulate that at least with electrical tape.Good info as I keep thinking about a wet system. 
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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NINJA12
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posted September 16, 2008 08:10 AM
quote:
KZ, as promised, here is a pic of my nozzle setup. Like your setup, everything is behind the intakes, so it doesn't interrupt airflow. The nitrous solenoid lives in the airbox connected directly to the distribution block. I expect it will give a nice firm hit. The fuel solenoid is outside the airbox.
The 3/16 SS lines are stiff and make changing jets a pain in the ass. I kinda wish I had 1/8th lines.
I think you will be happier with the fuel inside the box and the nitrous outside.
The 6 psi fuel travels slower than the 900psi nitrous and you get a lean spike even when
they are the same length. I don't think you want to give the nitrous a head start.
IT could mess up some stuff before the fuel can save you.
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KZScott
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posted September 16, 2008 01:00 PM
quote:
quote:
so my bottle doesnt have a siphon tube, im going to make one out of steel tubing. theres a brass pipe fitting (pipe to pipe) in the valve that i can take out, ill just solder the tube to it and bend it to where i want. unless someone can tell me why that may not work?
I used that brass fitting (compression) for my siphon tube.I bent the tube at a 45* angle and when tightening down, made sure the tube would always be in a downward angle from the valve discharge as it is mounted in the bike.
You have a shot of a solenoid and looks like a regulator next to it.I hope you will insulate that at least with electrical tape.Good info as I keep thinking about a wet system.
i used a pretty good sized steel line, 3/8 or so, silver soldered it on the brass fitting. its mounted so its at the bottom/back of the bottle when its in the bike.
low fuel pressure switch, yes its insulated, that was a pic from before it was tested
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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KZScott
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posted September 16, 2008 01:05 PM
Edited By: KZScott on 16 Sep 2008 21:07
quote:
quote:
KZ, as promised, here is a pic of my nozzle setup. Like your setup, everything is behind the intakes, so it doesn't interrupt airflow. The nitrous solenoid lives in the airbox connected directly to the distribution block. I expect it will give a nice firm hit. The fuel solenoid is outside the airbox.
The 3/16 SS lines are stiff and make changing jets a pain in the ass. I kinda wish I had 1/8th lines.
I think you will be happier with the fuel inside the box and the nitrous outside.
The 6 psi fuel travels slower than the 900psi nitrous and you get a lean spike even when
they are the same length. I don't think you want to give the nitrous a head start.
IT could mess up some stuff before the fuel can save you.
i missed that this morning (still sleeping:P) yeah, my nitrous line is about 5 times longer than my fuel line when we compare solenoid to dis block lines. i just have a tiny lean spike (a hair more than what i get from airshifting)
my hit is really firm. like instant firm. so dont worry about a soft hit
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
rgeorge
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Posts: 220
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posted September 16, 2008 06:18 PM
quote:
I think you will be happier with the fuel inside the box and the nitrous outside.
The 6 psi fuel travels slower than the 900psi nitrous and you get a lean spike even when
they are the same length. I don't think you want to give the nitrous a head start.
IT could mess up some stuff before the fuel can save you.
I disagree.
You can consider the fuel an incompressible fluid. As soon as the solenoid opens and fuel begins to flow through it, it has to start going through the jets. The only things that would cause a delay are:
1 Expansion of the fuel lines between the solenoid and jets due to the fuel pressure. The stainless hardlines I use are rated for use on 4000psi hydraulic systems, so expansion at this pressure is negligible.
2 The time it takes the pressure wave to go from the solenoid to the jets. The delay is negligible due to the high speed of sound through gasoline.
3 Inertia of fuel in the lines. There will be a short amount of time required to get the fuel moving. This applies both the fuel before and after the solenoid so the solenoid location does not affect this.
Another concern that people have is air in the fuel system. The fuel in the lines can dribble out the nozzle and air come in to replace it. With the small jets we use, I doubt this happens at all. If it did, it would fill the lines between the nozzles and the distribution block, and wouldn't be affected by solenoid location.
On the nitrous side, it doesn’t just stay in the line after the solenoid closes. All of the nitrous after the solenoid will slowly expand and turn to gas. The jets we use give the correct flow with liquid nitrous. The gaseous nitrous has to be pushed out the nozzles before the dense liquid gets there. A large line volume between the solenoid and the nozzles will cause a significant and inconsistent delay (bad for bracket racing).
The real reason for the famous "lean spike" is fuel system pressure drop. As KZ discovered with his pressure switch, there is a significant drop in pressure when the fuel flow increases suddenly. This drop is across the entire fuel system, so moving the fuel solenoid has no affect. There will be less flow through the jets until the fuel system pressure catches up. For those of us with only one fuel system, it also means less flow through the fuel injectors, causing a significantly lean condition. Some car guys deal with this problem by installing a fuel accumulator. It helps hold the fuel pressure steady during the instant flow requirement when the solenoid opens.
I originally planned to have both solenoids in the airbox, similar to the muzzy kit. I was really concerned about the fire potential. I don't have a dedicated nitrous fuel pump, so the lines to the solenoid would be pressurized even when the system isn't armed. I decided to put the solenoid closer to the T in the fuel line, so line to the airbox is only pressurizes while spraying.
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