KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 11, 2008 03:07 PM
who sells a good valve shim kit?
or should i just get what i need from the overpriced dealership?
thx guys!
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 11, 2008 03:34 PM
Hot cams sells shim sets, yep!
what range are you looking for?
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 11, 2008 04:18 PM
no idea yet Karl. i havent checked any yet... but theres no reason i cant do that before the motor is assembled is there?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 11, 2008 05:29 PM
what did you do to yr valves/seats???
If only lapping, the shims should be just a lil thinner than the ones you were running before.
You can set up the shims on the bench. I have never done it that way, but lotsa folks do.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted May 11, 2008 05:37 PM
I did mine that way.
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 11, 2008 05:39 PM
just lapped them Karl, but i hadnt ever checked them, so they might have been tight to start out. ill try to find some time to do that after the oil pans are done....sometimes i wish there was 2 of me lol
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted May 11, 2008 05:53 PM
Checking them on the bench doesn't require the cams to be timed with the crank, and can save a lot of time. Honda CRF450 shims are the same OD, are cheaper than the Kawi parts and come in .025mm increments. This will allow you to adjust your lash to within .001".
Get a spreadsheet of what you have and where you can swap shims around. Once you run out of places to swap shims, get a list of the ones you need and the ones that need to be replaced and see if a local dealer will trade with you (a fairly common practice). If not, order the ones you need from a dealer, K&L, ronayers, mrcycles, etc.
Set up your lash on the loose side of spec to make sure you have adequate contact/cooling.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 11, 2008 05:57 PM
wow, i would have never guessed that a honda part might make it into my bike  awesome info Tim! thx!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 11, 2008 06:30 PM
You would be suprised at the amount of stuff different bike have in common.
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted May 12, 2008 03:47 AM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 12 May 2008 04:48
One thing to note: When setting the valve lash on the bench its possable to bend valves on some setups. Even more so if you have big cams and/or oversize valves.
Its best to have only one cam in at a time when setting up lash on the bench. But if you have both cams in make sure that the valves are NOT open at max lift on any cylinder on the cam you are not turning.
There is a chance that the valves can hit each other and bend if both intake AND exhaust meet at max lift.
Just keep it in mind.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 12, 2008 04:38 AM
Jim,
On the bench, what do you use to turn the cam once it is mounted on the head??
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted May 12, 2008 06:15 AM
YES!!!!!!!
Use only one cam!!!!!! Be careful, set the head up on a couple 2x4 blocks, with a good clean shop cloth over them to keep from scarring the head.........
I used a plastic headed hammer, to LIGHTLY tap the cam around........, be careful, but it is easily doable......, especially if you are going to have to change a bunch of shims after lapping valves........
Use a table large enough to have a tablet to mark all the measurements....., and keep your favorite cold beverage close at hand.........., and loud music seems to help as well........., I prefer metallica, and kid rock, saliva......, etc, your choices may vary..........
Its in the harmonics...........
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 12, 2008 07:14 AM
marilyn manson & guns n' roses have good harmonics but not at the same time.
The plastic hammer makes me nervous.
how about welding part of an old cam chain to some vice grips, then put a hook on the other side
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted May 12, 2008 07:44 AM
I use a thin combination wrench on the sprocket bolts. If the bolt heads get bunged-up in the process, at least they are the cheapest and easiest thing that you can replace in the cylinder head.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 12, 2008 08:36 AM
Tim,
where on the cam do you measure lash (opposite the lobe peak, other place??)
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted May 12, 2008 09:33 AM
Yes, opposite the lobe peak. I understand that you don't need to do that, meaning that you can measure several cylinders without moving the cams, but I'm funny like that.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 12, 2008 10:22 AM
quote:
Yes, opposite the lobe peak. I understand that you don't need to do that, meaning that you can measure several cylinders without moving the cams, but I'm funny like that.
Tim
whew, i was hoping you'd say that.
i also measure opposite the lobe peak but i understand that there are folks who say measure at some angle of rotation off that point.
AND, even more of a display of OCD, i start with #1/2 exh, then do #3/4 exh and so on, even tho i could do it faster by taking them out of sequence. I like! rotating the motor and doing things sequentially. funny like that, me.
BTW: yr shim calculator IS THE TITS!!!!!! You could/should copywrite & sell it (as long I get grandfathered on the copy I have  )
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted May 12, 2008 12:31 PM
I'm glad you like my calculator. It's saved my stupid ass several times.
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 12, 2008 05:31 PM
What are your two chatting about shim calculator?
Is this the program that does all the chess(shim) moves to keep shim purchases to a min, or is this calculating the size of the shim need for a certain shim clearance?
Either way , be nice and share!
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 12, 2008 05:36 PM
i was thinking the same thing
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted May 12, 2008 06:00 PM
I haven't written anything that can do the "chess moves" yet, but that would be really cool.
The calculator that I wrote takes target lash, measured lash and current shim sizes and calculates which shims are required to meet the target lash. It's a good sanity check at 03:15 in the morning when you can't quite figure out the zen of how a shim's thickness influences lash numbers.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted May 12, 2008 06:03 PM
Are you talking about the chart that is in the book?
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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tcchin
Zone Head
Posts: 867
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posted May 12, 2008 09:21 PM
Uh, no.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 12, 2008 09:55 PM
Tim wrote an excel spreadsheetwhich "simply" tells you what shims to put in.
You input:
1. your target clearances (exh & Int)
2. the currently installed shims
3. the current measured lash
it gives you:
- the next shims to put in to get you to your target
sounds simple, IS simple (to use)
formula to generate the thickness of the next shim to use?? NOT so simple.
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted May 13, 2008 03:06 AM
quote:
Tim wrote an excel spreadsheetwhich "simply" tells you what shims to put in.
You input:
1. your target clearances (exh & Int)
2. the currently installed shims
3. the current measured lash
it gives you:
- the next shims to put in to get you to your target
sounds simple, IS simple (to use)
formula to generate the thickness of the next shim to use?? NOT so simple.
and some of use have been around so long so the spead sheet is in my head
____________
Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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