mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted March 10, 2008 07:50 PM
going big on dry shot, looking for educated opinions
Stats on my bike as follows:
carpenter 1290 kit with all the goodies, ceramic tranny bearings, stacks, billet basket, 6 heavy duty brock springs(just added), pc, etc. Makes between upper 180's to low 200 's depending on dyno.
14.1 compression and 91 octane fuel (non oxygenated)
Added dry kit with a 36 or 38 jet and power jumped 53 hp with af ratio of about 12.3 to12.5 af ratio stock timing(mile high) 3 gallons of vp 110 and two gallons of 91 octane.
rider weight 230 lb's in gear, 5300 elevation of track(air density 8300 ft) foot shifted, street tire, slipping clutch. one half way clean pass minus crappy 60 ft 1.71 netted 9.78@155.13 mph. 6 degrees of timing pulled out for possible safety issues.
I bought a nos spray bar over on the hayabusa board mounted the spray bar on the outside behind the air filters and ran copper tubing through the (ash trays) and they set up directly over the velocity stacks.
I also got the injectors cleaned and flowed (approximately 330 cfm).
This weekend i'm heading to the dyno and upping the nos jet. I'm guessing the fuel system will run out of fuel at approximately 270-275 hp @100% duty cycle on the injectors.
I know 14.1 compression is alot especially with a big dry shot. However,i live at a mile high location which effectively reduces my overall compression by a full point(in theory).
Dry kit includes: window switch set to come on at 6000 rpm/ shut off at 11k, microswitch, (only comes on at full throttle) bottle pressure of around 950-1100
I'm thinking of running upwards of an 80-90 hp dry shot depending on duty cycle. My questions are:
1. how much timing should i pull? (i have muzzy manual ign adv.-retard)
2. What fuel should i be running?
3. Whats the maximum numbers that can be added to the powercommander cells( i think its 45)?
4. Should i add fuel in the 80% column as well?
5. what should i shoot for as far as af ratios (11.5-12.0? or........)
My goal is to see a 160 mph trap one time without blowing it apart, before i retire my bike to street duty and build a turbo zx14.
any thoughts or comments appreciated!
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 sold
2006 ZX10R Wifes
2002 ZX12
2007 Gsxr1000
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
  
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted March 11, 2008 05:35 AM
I am an idiot but here is my opinion.
Go conservative and tune up from there.
EFIR might work a little better so you do not loose timing when not on the juice. I
do not think 14:1 comp is too much for what you are asking for. The basic I think is
2 deg for every 50HP, but with higher comp some take out a little more.
C-16 would be nice to start with for a little insurance, as it real does not rob much HP.
If you plan on going bigger you may want to trim/map each cylinder.
Give Johnny Cheese a call on Saturday. He has run over 150HP shot on a 1270 with around the same comp.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 11, 2008 06:16 AM
Or run the ignition module so you can add timing to the point of spray and retard from there. the 12 is lazy off the line with timing pulled.
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Halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted March 11, 2008 07:30 AM
Here is my humble opinion, I would run VP-MS109 fuel, 109octane, oxygenated, and a very rich running fuel
so you will need to add less fuel to the mapping overall. A complete new map will be needed though.
Yes add the same amounts of fuel @ 80%, and I would not pull so much timing 4-5degrees max.
Raise the window switch rpm to 8500-9000 no lower, it will help you get out of the hole without spinning as much.
You only have a 1000-1200 rpm drop between gears so it won't fall out of range.
With 14-1 compression, -4 degrees timing, and oxygenated fuel it will leave well, and the 109 octane
will be plenty safe, AFR 11.5-12.0 max will be safe as well.
This fuel will act like bigger injectors already so you should have no problem with maxxed out injectors. Plus it is an affordable fuel.
That's just my opinion, put it on the dyno!
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted March 11, 2008 10:54 AM
 Edited By: mrsantafe on 11 Mar 2008 12:00
Thanks for the suggestions: recap as follows
a. c16 to be safe
b. 4-5 degrees of timing (retard)
c. raise the window switch
d. get a hold of jcheese
e. add the same numbers to the 80% column
f. work my way up on the nos jets
g.spray and pray
I have the a custom nos map for my 50 shot, i'll start their and work my way up.
Additionally, i have a nos progressive controller and i have it set up for 30% nos off the line for 2 seconds and then 100% the rest of the way.
gearing 16-51 going thru 5th gear.
5inch stretch, dogbone to middle setting, front end strapped, michelin pilot race.
Whats JCheese phone number???
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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Halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted March 11, 2008 12:21 PM
PM sent
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
|
Gixx1300R
Expert Class
Posts: 218
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posted March 12, 2008 06:14 PM
Got any pics?
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Gixx1300R
Expert Class
Posts: 218
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posted March 12, 2008 06:18 PM
FYI
Nitrous will chelate copper. This will not happen overnight but check your lines every couple of months or so.
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted March 13, 2008 08:39 AM
ill see if i can post some pics this evening. Gixxer1300r thanks for the tip on the copper lines.
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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Gixx1300R
Expert Class
Posts: 218
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posted March 13, 2008 09:13 AM
Automotive grade Nitrous has sulfur so it cant be huffed. Sulfur is what deteriortaes copper over time. Also make sure all of your spray patterens are the same. If they arent then you can burn up a piston.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted March 13, 2008 09:21 AM
quote:
Automotive grade Nitrous has sulfur so it cant be huffed. Sulfur is what deteriortaes copper over time. Also make sure all of your spray patterens are the same. If they arent then you can burn up a piston.
Great point! Another reason to use Stainless Jetting!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted March 13, 2008 10:38 PM
Gixxer1300r are you saying CW's spray bar is not efficient or safe? pm me please.
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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Gixx1300R
Expert Class
Posts: 218
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posted March 15, 2008 07:44 AM
quote:
Gixxer1300r are you saying CW's spray bar is not efficient or safe? pm me please.
you have a pm
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted March 17, 2008 08:46 AM
Back from the dyno here are my results:
a. Brand new dynojet 250 i very stingy in my opinion but no matter 91 octane
181.5 hp base line (built carpenter 1290 14.1 comp etc.)
b. added 2 gallons of c16 to existing 91 octane (rode it around a few miles)
-4 degrees timing put (nos map i already had size 38 jet)
239 .6 hp. duty cycle hit 82%
c. added 42 jet result 256 hp duty cycle 92% added a lot fuel to the 80 and 100% column
a/f ratio around 12.5-12.8
d. maxed out the powercommander cells 45 is the highest it will go period. added 44 nos jet
result 270 hp. duty cycle 100% af ratio ok except at around 8000 rpm af ratio was 13.8 and the it steadly richened up to 11 k were it was at 12.5-12.8 range.
I certainly do not plan on running the 44 jet at the strip because i feel its to dangerous with the af ratio the way it is unless i raised my window switch to 8500 rpm then the af ratio would be safer.
Additionally, i could add some larger injectors to bring the af ratio into a safer range and was wondering what it would have been like to run straight c16 fuel. I know the dyno i used is super stingy but look at the results with the nos. Nearly a 90 hp increase.
Feel free to add any thoughts or suggestions
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted March 17, 2008 10:08 AM
what about increasing fuel pressure? didnt BEAR do that by crushing the regulator? (no idea how...) VH??
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 17, 2008 02:47 PM
Dyno dont sound too stingee, My numbers were 203 hp with 43 of that being dope, and I ran 8.88 with that, sheeeesh if I showed 270 hp, yiiiikes that would be an 8.Oh in the 1/4.
its weird that your PC grid stops at 45, mine will allow 9999999 in a grid. I have the pclll usb, wich one do you have ?
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted March 17, 2008 05:47 PM
Edited By: mrsantafe on 17 Mar 2008 18:53
I have a old pc3 no usb model( it tops out in fuel cells at 45)
KzScott- I don't believe thats a viable option on an 02 and newer model.
Zrex pililot are you saying 43 hp with nos or that you have an 43 jet in your bike?
On this dyno a friend of mine made 169 hp with a 1397 bigbore kit 13.5 comp, custom mapped, full exhaust etc. on the same day mine made 181hp. My 07 gixxer with tsukigi exhaust put down 157 hp. Ive had my 02 12 on about 6 different dyno's and this dyno always makes at least 5-7 less then everyone else. (No matter)
My bike sounds very close to Bergies bike built by lee shierts. I dug up an old post and Bergie showed a dyno sheet of his bike making 290 hp with a simple dry shot. If i remember correctly his bike ran in the 8's@163 mph at a lower elevation track and he weighs about 185 ish unsuited.
I think with a bigger injectors and a newer pc3usb i would probably make more hp. However, my goal has been met. Except to actually run the qtrmile and get a 160 mph trap at a mile high track with air density often excess of 8000 ft.
It would be nice to purchase and airshifter and a lock up clutch and take my bike to a lower elevation and see a 8 second pass.
Hopefully, my new zx14 or (hayabubba) with a big fat turbo will get me an 8 second pass @ at least 175 mph at my local dragstrip and hopefully be somewhat streetable.
I mainly lurk and seek advice on this board however once in a while when i have specific details that workout well i enjoy contributing.
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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Halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted March 17, 2008 06:36 PM
Boy you are making great power for that altitude.
For $50 just try an can of MS-109 you will be suprised how rich that fuel is,
and your AFR will lower just with a pour.
Nice work already!
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
|
zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 17, 2008 06:47 PM
yes that was 43hp of dope.
How long is your bike ?
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted March 17, 2008 08:20 PM
Edited By: mrsantafe on 17 Mar 2008 21:24
Thanks Halvefast i'll give that fuel a try for sure. My bike is stretched about 41/2 to 5inchs.
Zrexpilot what size jet are you using? 36-38 ish
The problem i have is the tire won't hold with a longer than the above wheel base. I've tried messing with the compression and rebound on the stock shock. Messed with the air pressure. Different tires, shinko, shinko 003 xtra soft and now i have a race take (pilot power race of wifes bike).
On my 9.78@155.13 mph was with a stellar 1.71 60 ft. This was the first time i tried using nos in a qtr mile. What happened is i had 3 muzzy and three stock clutch springs and the clutch would just spin up in upper third and 4th gear.
In fact so far thats the only clean pass i got with the nos. I normally run low 1.6's all day with hand clutch (no lock up)and a half way decent track prep. So i figured my bike probably would have run a high 9.5 and would have mile an houred slightly better. Now i have brocks all 6 heavy duty springs and hope this will hold up on my quest to 160 mph trap in Albuquerque NM.
I'm also a TFA member tipping the scales @ 230 in gear kinda sucks.
Air density better than 8k feet (very bad air)
230 lb rider
poor surface prep
and generally high temperatures especially summer
So i feel i'm doing ok but im always up for ways to improve my education...
____________
9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted March 18, 2008 02:10 AM
Its a 4 nozzle set-up, running 4 -16 jets, for now.
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted March 18, 2008 09:07 AM
Cool Zrexpilot, mine is a single jet that goes into a spray bar designed by Chuck Wilburn. It's good to see different designs with the same goal in mind. I went with Chucks design because it seemed simple and efficient. I believe its much better than the old duel sprayers in the airbox (and hope the nos was distributing evenly).
I suppose your design as well as Gixxer1300r design could possibly be better than mine. However, im very pleased in the price and service Chuck offered, i definately recommend his kit to anyone reading this post, the kit simply works.
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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