salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted August 28, 2007 11:36 AM
wheelie bar height?? help...
I will be racing and will be adjusting the wheelie bar low...1-1.5 inches at rear...any drawbacks with that?
reason I want low is because I am hoping the bar will keep the bike very low....I have not done the oil pan mod on my ZX-10R...my clearance is at about 2.5 inches or less .
I busted an oil pan earlier this summer. Don't want that to be repeated...did not have a wheelie bar then so hope to have that corrected...noy 100 %sure..so asking you experienced guys...
I would hope my low wheelie bar will keep the bike from raising front tire much off the floor and save me the disgusting pleasure of busting another oil pan in the middle of a race weekend.....
should work.... yes?- no? any experience on front wheel lift with a wheelie bar Nox?
any other comments or helpful tips...?
Thanks...
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Salsa1
  
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DR JOE
Expert Class
Posts: 352
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posted August 28, 2007 01:07 PM
Salsa 1,
First off make sure the bike is level front to back and side to side.
You can buy a magnetic torpedo level from sears for about $10.00 put it on the rear brake rotor, this will tell you if the bike is level from side to side. You can have someone sit on the bike or block up either way works.
Check your air pressure in the tires, start with 10 to 12 PSI in the rear and 35 to 40 psi in front, the ZX10 is a high HP, low torque bike. So you will run more air pressure.
Next get a 2X4 about 12" to 18" long and put it under the wheelie bars. Here again make sure that the bike is level from side to side. this will insure that you have a stright launch.
Start with the 2X4 height then make a couple of passes, have someone watch the front tire to see how high it is getting. If you do not have a lock-up clutch you will need to add air pressure to the tire to get the tire to spin just a little off the line, if the bike bogs off the line. You did not state if your using a slick or a street tire. Either way start with about 10 to 12 PSI and go up if the bike bogs, also start at about 7K to 8K launch RPM.
This will take some time to figure out what works with your bike. Also gearing is a big help here. On my ZX12 I had a 16/55 gearing (Low 1.30 60' and average 9.3 to 9.4 1/4 mile times), but would have worked better with a 16/57. Plan on buying gears for the rear so that you can use all 6 gears and make it easier to get out of the hole.
Also do you have a speedo healer?? If not when you gear the bike you will hit the speed limiter.
Once you get the bike to come out of the hole with out bogging if it starts to pogo lower the bars 1/2 turns and retest. You will make adjust ments to the bars till every thing comes into sync.
It will take a little time to get it dialed in, but the times that you will run will be worth it in the end. if you need any thing else just ask. Also don't just drop the clutch, do more of a fast slide, this is something else that you will get a feel for.
Doc.
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 28, 2007 01:51 PM
2 inches........
I ran 5.72 with bars, and 15/56 gear, set the two step to about 7,000, and adust the lock up accordingly......., if you dont have a lock up, the only thing you can do, is try to spin, then it will hook 20 feet out, bog, slow you down, and be rough as hell, and just as fast as if you had just put a little stretch on it and rode it........, get a lock up, and pop the clutch, other wise, dont mess with it, not worth the time
WIth the lock up right, you will freakin fly........
____________
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Stuart Racing
Zone Head
N.H.R.A . Dragracing.
Posts: 999
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posted August 28, 2007 02:36 PM
Is this your first experiance with a wheelie bar??If so ,be ready to hang on when it hits the bar,if it doesn't spin first...My first time it hit hard and snatched my hands off the handle bars and wiped me out...Thats worser than bustin a oil pan...LOL.....
See ya,
Paul.....
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted August 28, 2007 02:46 PM
I have lockup and two step...isn't what Nox advised...I don't ignore the voice of experience..
I have set the two step at 7700 rpm.. but may set it at 8200-8400 seeing the larger 12 motor responded well to 7000...will take it easy on the first couple of runs..
had a wheelie bar on my ZX-11.. but never with a Mickey Thompson slick...
will run lockup two stage from muzzy with no weights on lockup to see how she does...7 inches stretched out. with swing arm extensions...I plan to do good.. lots of hours to set up...will run 15/50 gears to start and have a 54 rear sprocket in case I bog down... 
lowered a whole lot on the rear solid struts... license plate is close to rear tire as is....
just asking stuff as one ounce of prevention is worth .....
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Salsa1
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zxboy
Expert Class
Posts: 292
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posted August 28, 2007 03:17 PM
I think Dr Joe covered this but MAKE SURE your wheelie bar axle is level with with your back brake disc...Make sure the bike is straight up using a level on the rear brake disc and then put the level on the wheelie bar axle. If the wheelie bar axle doesn't jive with the brake disc adjust it with one of the rod ends till it's level. Once that's done you can adjust the bar height by adjusting both rod ends at the same time.
Another thing I found important was the axle / chain adjustment....I have one of those RPM chain adjuster tools and make sure it's perfectly adjusted. The factory marks are a little off and your extensions are most likely off also. Missalignment of the rear axle will cause you to drift one way or the other..
Also remember if the lower bars mount to the rear axle (Pingle bars) any adjustment to the chain tension will mess with your wheelie bar height. Let us know how it goes.... Roy
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zxboy
Expert Class
Posts: 292
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posted August 28, 2007 03:25 PM
Salsa, How's your front end set up ??? Is it lowered by sliding the forks in the trees ??
Strapped front end + rear strut = bad handling
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 28, 2007 05:57 PM
Ditto that.......
My 12 Did real well at 5,000 as well, depends on how you gear and set the clutch........
I launched at 7500 for a 5 speed, 5500 for a 6 speed...........
____________
42 Wins
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2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
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salsa1
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posted August 28, 2007 08:49 PM
bike is slammed two inches front and will have straps to lower as close as possible to front fender.. rear will be a bit lower as per rear strut shrinkage... just plan to try it as is and see waht results,,
should I be scared of not being perfect? hope not...plan to back off if control is not straight.. thats my plan...
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Salsa1
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 29, 2007 04:56 AM
Dont strap the front with a strutted rear, then you basically have NO suspension........, it will po go like crazy and be WAY unsafe.........
Lower the front two inches in the tree and be done...........
Trust me on this.
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted August 29, 2007 05:41 AM
 Edited By: salsa1 on 29 Aug 2007 06:44
Ok nox...front has been lowered..2 inches..probably not exactly lowered level with rear...rear is as low as possible...
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why is the following so important? what should I try to avoid from happening?
("MAKE SURE your wheelie bar axle is level with with your back brake disc")
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Initially the "wheelie bar" was hitting the rear brake so I installed washers on both sides of monuting locations to widen and back it off.. still touches...
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sounds like I might need to spend some time adjusting the rear strut to level the bike and not just aim for the lowest possible center of gravity...
I thought lower equates to more control and quicker 60 ft times...never had problems with my ZX-11 and wheelie bar solid strut set up...but I realize I will be launching much harder with my set up.. slick.. ect..
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Salsa1
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 29, 2007 05:44 AM
because if it launches right, your front end will not touch, and it will steer itself..........
Mine did not come down till second........., 60 ft is a long way even if it turns a little............
Setting up a bar bike is not as simple as most folks think......, you dont just bolt on a slick and bars and haul ass..........., you have to know how to do it.......
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted August 29, 2007 05:49 AM
Got my attention Nox...will probably run 3-4 trial runs . Sound like I better plan for a "test and tune" phase before I dive in full boar...will set two step lower to start....
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Salsa1
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted August 29, 2007 08:34 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 29 Aug 2007 12:00
I guess I figured that the " both wheelie bar wheels should be equally distant to the floor.." still not sure what the back brake disk or leveling in referencre to it has to do with that?
I know a guy can chalk the wheelie bar wheels and see how evenly is the footing print left by each wheel for adjusting either side.. right?
Thanks for info.. good stuff guys..will be studying comments and ifo better later ...
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Salsa1
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zxboy
Expert Class
Posts: 292
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posted August 29, 2007 11:48 AM
The rear disc is important because it'll tell you that your bike is level !!! and then you can set your wheelie bar axle level also. You don't want to be using the floor because it might not be level. Roy
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted August 29, 2007 01:01 PM
ok Roy.. bit confusing as the bar axle is 90 degrees to the rear disk brake, not in parallel.
can tell I don't use a level thing very often...  I do have a small one...
I will give it more thought when at the bike...will also have plenty of help at the track to finalize set up...
Thanks Roy.
it'l come together eventually...
____________
Salsa1
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