salsa1
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posted June 01, 2007 05:21 AM
 Edited By: salsa1 on 1 Jun 2007 07:13
Wheelie bars and stock transmission..
wheelie bar versus Long extended swing arm:
I would guess there are a number of folks running a wheelie bar and solid strut at the strip here...
on ZX-12R's... any concerns or problems with tranny being tore up..??
I ask cause I just sent for a wheelie bar and strut for my ZX-10R and will be using it at the track from time to time...some one mentioned I will tear my tranny up..and that my clutch won't take the abuse either...
Was told that a loooong swing arm (70" wheelbase) and a flat slick is the way to go instead... not so sure about that...I see the tranny getting abused about the same....
I realize all bikes get some abuse at the strip.. I am thinking the wheelie bar will flex a bit...
where an axtended swing arm might be a bit more forgiving but not by much when the bike is lowered and strapped down .. I don't see an extended swing arm flexing much although the rear mono shock will; I can see that....
coments...?? experience?
I am going to run it regardless...  but be nice to know any info
Thanks!!
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SteddyTeddy
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posted June 01, 2007 06:48 AM
Why the wussy bars? You planing on running brackets? I hope you are planning on also running a slick. If not your wasting your time.
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salsa1
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posted June 01, 2007 07:09 AM
Yes I run brackets and want to be competetive on low et as well...I don't run for season points every time the track opens...but I do run with the pack on bracket type racing when I go....my friends at the track are very bracket oriented...it's a hobby...
I want better 60"..extended swing arm was good for a while but want to try the wheelie bar thing for fun...I run a ultra soft shinko..
I get all kinds of traction.. broke an oil pan last weekend...would have to go longer than a 6" extensions I have now with the low gearing I have....
choose wheelie bar instead...
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Salsa1
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SteddyTeddy
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posted June 01, 2007 08:18 AM
Edited By: SteddyTeddy on 1 Jun 2007 09:18
Shinko ain't going to cut it with bars. You need a slick if you want to hook up. By going with struts you are taking aways the bikes ability to squat and transfer weight to the rear. You can use the Shinko but you will have traction problems.
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salsa1
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posted June 01, 2007 08:35 AM
Don't think there is a 17" slick in the market available....There might be..?
will try the ultra soft shinko first.. it is better that the first generation shinko and very good for bikes running deep into the 8's...I will only be running low to mid 9's... it might work.. will have see..
The wheelie bar should flex a bit bearing me and the bikes weight on the rear tire still..
will see for sure next week...will ask pingel and see around if there is a slick available in case...
you might be right.. I hope not too right anyways.. the track usually has a lot of traction....
Thanks!
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Salsa1
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salsa1
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posted June 01, 2007 09:39 AM
Jegs sells a 17" slick for 6.5 rim...looks like I might need to buy....oh well .. .
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salsa1
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posted June 01, 2007 10:04 AM
No one here runs a wheelie bar I take it....
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nox
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posted June 01, 2007 12:47 PM
If MT still makes it, they make a 7" slick that will fit the stock rim, I have a couple used ones here...........
I have run consistent 1.32 short times with 64" wb and 64" bars........
Mickey Thompson motorcycle slick,
with no pc, no pipe.......
just tune the hell out of the lockup and go.........
tranny will hold up fine, wheel spin is what eats up trannys..........
send me an email, and I will send you some photos ..........
Only reason I quit that set up, was the Pro ET money went away here.............
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zxboy
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posted June 01, 2007 01:59 PM
Edited By: zxboy on 1 Jun 2007 15:03
Salsa,
Like NOX says.....MT makes a 17" slick and probably will for a while. What's you setup ?? Do you have a lockup ?? will it be stock length ?? The reason I ask is I went down that road. First off if and when you run the MT slick, because it's so tall, you'll need to drop 2 teeth in the front just to get your original gearing back. I run 16/56 on my 12 !! At stock length, if you get it to hook, the launch will be violent. It'll rotate around that back tire, plant the bars and want to bounce the back tire off the ground. It'll beat the crap out of you. I deformed the gas tank on my 12 with it at stock length.... I went 12 over and it smoothed the launch out ALOT. A lockup will help also...a slider is better. Do you have a air shifter ?? You'll have a hard time getting you feet up...
So to anwser your question. you won't tear up your tranny but you might grenade the basket  In my case one thing led to another and this is what I ended up with.... A deadly consistent bracket bike 
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zxboy
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posted June 01, 2007 02:04 PM
Edited By: zxboy on 1 Jun 2007 15:07
Did that picture work ??? doesn't on my work computer..
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nox
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posted June 01, 2007 02:19 PM
I never hurt a basket, but i ran soft clutch set ups............
Finally got a billet this year,
yes, guys, I know, I was one of the lucky ones..............
Stretch it, put a lock up in it, bars, slick, and it will fly, with the right hands touching the clutch set up...............
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zxboy
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posted June 01, 2007 03:53 PM
You were running a stock basket all that time ???? Wow you WERE lucky.
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SteddyTeddy
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posted June 01, 2007 03:57 PM
Hell I even broke a basket already. They are not fun to clean up. Shattered the clutch plates into tiny pieces.
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salsa1
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posted June 01, 2007 03:58 PM
already have the bar.. came in early... will try with stock wheelbase unless it will fit on extensions...
hopefully it is manageable at the track...hopefully I go thru fibers and not a basket as well.. no lockup at the moment...will be learning what works for the ZX-10R... I imagine it will be a bit different than what a 12R rides like...less weight for one..
anyways I truly appreciate the encouragement....was about to give up on the wheelie bar thing and try to go with a longer extended swing arm somehow...
but I really want to try the slick and wheelie bar thing just to do it... 
Thanks!!
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nox
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posted June 01, 2007 06:32 PM
without a lock up , with bars, and no two step, you are really just wasting your time........
to run that set up properly, you need a two step, slick, and a lock up.................
otherwise, you will be faster without...........
If I had a slick and bars with the hp and knowledge I have now, I would be running 8.80s or better all day long..........
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salsa1
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posted June 01, 2007 06:51 PM
I have looked into a two step.. I am told within a month or so there will be new systems available for the ZX-10R that are more affordable .. right now only one system that I found by Pingel..I think MSD sells it ...about $800.00.....lots of cash there...
The "lockup " has been known to help higher HP ZX-10R set ups with extended swing arm (nitrous and maybe turbo) ...but I will not forget I might need one as well....the lock up lets ya launch smoother? besides extending the life of the clutch I suppose?
I will have to wait for now..$$$
My gearing will not be the most aggressive due to the taller (slick) tire...hopefully that helps me keep things under control...will try and learn soon...season for drag racing is very young at this time..
thanks..
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nox
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posted June 02, 2007 05:50 AM
the lock up lets you make a smooth launch, and not spin
Call Sebastion Domingo at NLR, he makes a nice two step for the 12, and it doubles as a kill box for the air shifter as well
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pug329
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posted June 05, 2007 06:58 AM
slick
I have been playing with bars and slick on my 14 for awhile and no luck... I am lucky to have one of the top nhra pro stock teams close to me and wanting to help, How cool is that. The verdict is multi-stage (soft for 50 ft.) and two step. We are going to test soon and I,ll post the numbers. Without the muti-stage it won't work, better off with street tire. I'll ask my "tuner" and if he dosen't mind I'll post his contact info.
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nox
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posted June 05, 2007 07:18 AM
You can do it with a single stage as well, dont let anyone tell you you cant........
a lot of top NHRA div bracket racers use a single stage cause they are so easy to tune........
1.32 short times all day with a stock 12 with no pc or pipe and a single stage..........., it will work, but yes, you can gain a hair more with the multi................
Street tire WILL not work though.........
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salsa1
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posted June 05, 2007 07:48 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 5 Jun 2007 09:21
Doesn't the single stage lockup come into play after the 60".. and benefits higher than stock HP engines that are prone to clutch slip at high speeds after the 1/8 mile...?
Just thinking... I have not tried it yet but I might have bit of problems boging down more than spinning off the line with the small 1000 cc motor as well...
not drawing "conclusions" just considering I have not tried anything yet ...be nicer if the lockup was not over $600.00...
and the two step works to allow you to be more "consistent" at a given set RPM launch....I can normally reproduce what RPM I launch at fairly well repeadetly ...
just don't see how a two step will improve my 60"..I do see it's value for bracket racing...
Just asking..
Thanks for given info!
still learning here...
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salsa1
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posted June 05, 2007 09:24 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 5 Jun 2007 11:51
To complete my preliminary -planing analysis...(sounds smart anyways )
Extending the swing arm will give ya more unloading versus stock wheelbase...tire futher back ...more unloading...more prone to spinning rear..
In contrast: the longer wheelbase and tire further back gives more control...it's a trade off .. at least in theory..
Since I got the wheelie bar already for stock wheelbase will start there...can have a welding shop shorten the bottom tubes of the wheelie bar if I need to to fit the 7" extended swing arm later . A ZX-10R might behave differently than a ZX-12 with similar set up...will just have to see...no big deal...
" measure twice cut once"
Thanks!!
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nox
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posted June 05, 2007 08:13 PM
a single stage comes in faster than a multi stage.........
You need to go try your set up, then you will realize why we are right..............
To do it right, you need a two step, a slick, some wb, and a lock up that is set up right, and an air shifter.............
With the bars, you will be in a pro et class anyway...................
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salsa1
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posted June 06, 2007 11:05 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 6 Jun 2007 12:07
Went ahead and started my local welder to work on fabricating shorter lower bars for the wheelie bar to fit over my 7" extended swing arm......figure more wheelbase will help and the slick should provide traction... will probably start with 15 lbs rear tire pressure and lower if needed...I ran 12 lbs with the shinkos ...
will perfect set up and buy lockup and or two step along the way... have a quick shifter so will need to foot shift...but clutchless full throttle shifts help close to what an air shifter does as long as it works...so far have no problems with it...
look forward to seeing how she hooks up....don't plan on being a barbarian first couple of runs...will test first.....
Have fun!!
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nox
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posted June 06, 2007 02:16 PM
7 LBS WORKS GOOD AT THAT WB........, SOMETIMES 6 IF TRACK CONDITIONS ARE WIERD....., YOU WILL WANT A GUAGE THAT YOU CAN VARY 1/4 LB INCREMENTS WHEN THE SET UP GET S CLOSE...........
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zxboy
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posted June 06, 2007 11:02 PM
If your going to run the swingarm longer, you might want to lengthen the bars to match....set the bar length about 1" shorter than the wheelbase. 15 pounds will be WAY to much air... start a 9psi at the most and go down from there.
The lock up does help with high power bikes down track. But It'll benefit you if it's set up properly, you'll be able to throw the clutch away at the line and if it's set soft enough the rpm's will stay up and it won't bog.
A 2step will allow you to be at full throttle the instant you leave !! That will have to help your 60'...... Your still going to have to gear the heck out of it and when you get it to 60' you'll have a hard time getting your feet to the shifter for that 2nd gear change...
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