entropy
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Posts: 8671
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posted January 15, 2006 05:44 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 19 Jan 2006 02:19
now with PIX!! cam timing: something MUST be wrong!
Because it CAN'T be this easy...
Every time something is easy for me, i am about 10min from getting kicked in the ass. "pride commeth before the fall" and all that shit.
Armed with MadMike's cam timing kit & Doug Meyer's instructions, i set about checking the timing on my cams. This is a new build but not moving the cam set up from last build which was supposed to be 107 int, 110 exh.
Looking at the buckets it seemed I could get a pretty straight shot with the dial indicator probe by drilling 3/8" holes in the cam towers over the inboard side of the cams, outboard of #1 lobes. That took about 20min. Mike's brass indicator extension hit the buckets fine.
cams measured/calculated 107/110 
What am I doing wrong, it JUST CAN'T BE THIS EASY!!!
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted January 15, 2006 05:51 AM
yes it can Karl
because the last time I spent hours getting it there.
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 15, 2006 06:08 AM
You DA MAN, JC!!!
BTW:
Hey, about Gary's starter gear. My machinist (Al Luna) did mine when I had the upper case bolted to the block, crank in, 1 rod & piston (no rings) all set up, he saw where the starter gear hit the rod bolt and modded the starter gear accordingly. We really didn't keep good track of exactly the dimension of how the gear was cut. I don't think he could cut Gary's gear from memory of what he did to mine.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 15, 2006 09:17 AM
No one told me about "Drilling" the hole!! Tony "ZXLNT" Showed me his Set up using a Plate helped!
107 110?? Is that for Spraying?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 15, 2006 11:14 AM
quote:
No one told me about "Drilling" the hole!! Tony "ZXLNT" Showed me his Set up using a Plate helped!
107 110?? Is that for Spraying?
drilling the holes made it real easy to place the probe, and seeing how that part of the cam tower is not stressed, i couldn't see a reason NOT to drill 'em.
(is this the pace i will be bitten in the ass???)
nope, no spray; NA.
tests on JC's dyno showed my motor likes littler int, bigger exh numbers; didn't go littler than 107 int to keep the cranking cc pressure reasonable (approx 290-310 now).
cam numbers are a black art for me, so i have no science to really back 'em up (bunch of "expert's opinion's pushed me that way)
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entropy
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Posts: 8671
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posted January 15, 2006 11:15 AM
If Matt came over and took some pix maybe i could post 'e,m
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MadMike
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FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted January 15, 2006 01:39 PM
You know that some days are just good days my man!! I am glad that everything is coming together and the kit is working great for you!!
I use Doug's instructions also....
MM
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted January 15, 2006 04:06 PM
Hmm drilling a hole on the cam tower. Never even thought about doing that but I will now I know it will make it alot easier to degree the cams!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 15, 2006 05:19 PM
quote:
You know that some days are just good days my man!! I am glad that everything is coming together and the kit is working great for you!!
I use Doug's instructions also....
MM
yep, yr kit is the tits!!!!!
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted January 15, 2006 06:57 PM
quote:
quote:
You know that some days are just good days my man!! I am glad that everything is coming together and the kit is working great for you!!
I use Doug's instructions also....
MM
yep, yr kit is the tits!!!!!
Agreed!
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted January 16, 2006 07:08 AM
Edited By: zxlnt on 16 Jan 2006 22:25
Vincent my engine builder and I thought about drilling a hole in the camshaft cap plate, but werent' sure how much it might weaken it. We just bolted on that steel plate over the top of the cam caps and then used a magnetic base dial indicater. Probably not as easy as Karl's method but it did work.... I'll let you be the guniea pig on that mod. 
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 16, 2006 11:08 PM
zxlnt,
i thought about the "weakening" issue, but decided the holes drilled in the cam cap are outboard of hold down bolts and thus "probably" won't weaken it. We'll see, eh??
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted January 17, 2006 04:10 PM
You are more than likely correct. It wasn't really that hard doing it the "normal way", especially with the engine sitting on the bench.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 18, 2006 06:33 AM
quote:
You are more than likely correct. It wasn't really that hard doing it the "normal way", especially with the engine sitting on the bench.
Tony, you already know that "YOU" Saved my Ass already with the pic of the plate and that is exactly what I did and it worked fine! Thank you again!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Wideout
Expert Class
Posts: 300
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posted January 18, 2006 09:16 AM
quote:
If Matt came over and took some pix maybe i could post 'e,m
I'll be there this afternoon man!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 19, 2006 12:35 AM
Edited By: entropy on 19 Jan 2006 00:40
One thing that would make MM's kit just a lil bit easier to set up:
(MM's mag base works just fine, but this $22 thing would make it a bit quicker for us ole fumble-fingered guys)
Wholesale tools:
http://www.wttool.com/p/1276-0100?utm_id=24
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 19, 2006 02:13 AM
Edited By: entropy on 19 Jan 2006 02:14
My bud Wideout (Matt) was good enough to come over last night and take some pix.
THANKS, Matt!!!!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 19, 2006 02:18 AM
added bonus pic!!!
Here is a a pic of a head where i cut out one combustion chamber so i can torque down the head and directly measure the quench height (I set it at .041" +/-.001")
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kzz1
Zone Head
"Show me whatcha workin with"
Posts: 908
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posted January 19, 2006 05:35 AM
Carl, I noticed you only drill the cam tower on the intake side? Why not the exhaust side? Soon I will be pulling the 12 motor out and drilling the tower is what I plan on doing
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted January 19, 2006 07:26 AM
Looks great Karl!!! i will send a shot of that magnetic holder in and see if they can change!!
MM
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 19, 2006 10:25 AM
quote:
Carl, I noticed you only drill the cam tower on the intake side? Why not the exhaust side? Soon I will be pulling the 12 motor out and drilling the tower is what I plan on doing
Ken,
its drilled on both sides, just a bit hard to see on the exhaust side
Karl
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 19, 2006 10:27 AM
quote:
Looks great Karl!!! i will send a shot of that magnetic holder in and see if they can change!!
MM
Mike,
what was wierd was when i did a search on flexible mag base i came up with what LOOKED like exactly the same unit priced from $22 to over $100!!!!!
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Nukedog
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted January 19, 2006 04:43 PM
Once they are set it is easy to verify. Getting them set where you want to can be a real ordeal....!!!
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02 Busa...Turbo...
09 YZF-R6S...
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