johnnycheese
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posted April 30, 2004 01:25 PM
A/F question???
Okay so I was bored and decided to play on the dyno.
anyone care to quess what I found out about the A/F difference in the #1-2-3-4 A/F on a 12?????
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
  
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VincentHill
Needs a life
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posted April 30, 2004 01:34 PM
Yes, Since I plan to see if the longer stacks will help even out things in the middle, I think that the 1-4 and 2-3 ran about the same. Since the air comes in on the sides, that the center 2 cylinders run a tad richer and than the 2 outside ones. My guess is the difference is .2 between the center and the outside with the center being .2 richer!
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johnnycheese
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posted April 30, 2004 01:46 PM
yep but the number is higher
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted April 30, 2004 02:03 PM
Would be nice to have an affordable FI unit with independent adjustment for each cylinder on ignition timing and fuel..
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zrxdean
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posted April 30, 2004 02:06 PM
Does the temp make a difference? I imagine the middle 2 holes run hotter.
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BA
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posted April 30, 2004 02:28 PM
I agree with Vince, that is classic to some carburetion settings,....ya make the inside pair a little richer due to the way airflow comes to the 4 carbs/throttle bodies.
JC, I'm a little surprised that you're saying it's higher!! A .4 difference would be NOT COOL!!!
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MadMike
Moderator
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posted April 30, 2004 03:55 PM
?? no idea come on man let us know what is up?? and how did you get to test this???
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted April 30, 2004 10:29 PM
Im guessing he stuck the sniffer into each of the primary holes and ran it out (took off the midpipe and stuffed it in each one).
So spill it...how off was it?
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entropy
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posted May 01, 2004 03:28 AM
JC: you doing a bit of research?? EXCELLENT! On the red stealth 12???
BTW, I am under the impression that the new PC3 USB for zx12's has the capability of mapping A/F individ cylinders (but no adv capability)
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johnnycheese
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posted May 01, 2004 05:40 AM
yep the PC3usb can do each cyl by itself
and the difference was .8
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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entropy
Moderator
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posted May 01, 2004 09:41 AM
2 & 3 running .8 rich wrt 1 & 4????????
am I hearing this right??
how would you tune individ cyl without the exh can on?? I assume you are sticking the af sensor up into indiv headers???
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted May 01, 2004 10:01 AM
So was the bike otherwise "in tune"?
Meaning..when you ran it with the pipe on..it was at 12.7:1 ?
Then the outers were what? 12.3:1 vs 13.1:1 on the inners?
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johnnycheese
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posted May 01, 2004 11:30 AM
I pulled the can off and inserted the probe into each header. with the ful sysytem on I had an A/F of 12.7
#1 had 13.5
#2 had 12.7
#3 had 12.7
#4 had 13.5
so now I am wondering about having longer stacks like the Busa does in #2 and #3
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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entropy
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posted May 01, 2004 12:20 PM
WHOA!!!!!
GOOD INFO Cheeseman!!!!!
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AnotherRedHead
Expert Class
Posts: 348
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posted May 01, 2004 12:51 PM
The outer cylinders are always gonna be leaner, even on spec designed intakes the outer sides still lean out, people usually port them larger to slow them down.....
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VincentHill
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posted May 01, 2004 01:10 PM
This is why I have my A/F probe on #3! If #3 is in trouble, then the bike is in serious trouble. My thinking is that by having higher stacks in the middle, this will decrease the room they have and make them run leaner! I would have guessed .2 to .4 max, but never .8!
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BA
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posted May 02, 2004 11:22 AM
 Edited By: BA on 2 May 2004 20:34
who can explain why the aggregate A/F was 12.7?? JC? Anyone?
with the individual pipes giving 12.7 & 13.5, why wouldn't the aggregate A/F be 13.1??? the cylinders obviously all move the same amount of air....
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your car is slow
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posted May 02, 2004 04:23 PM
one would think so wouldnt one.
Doesnt add up for me either.
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VincentHill
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posted May 02, 2004 04:50 PM
quote:
who can explain why the aggregate A/F was 12.7??
with the individual pipes giving 12.7 & 13.5, why wouldn't the aggregate A/F be 13.1??? the cylinders obviously all move the same amount of air....
My thought is that the Scaving effect may actually be drawing in more fuel air mixture with the valve overlap which is why the whole system should be installed with sensors in each tube to make sure?
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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johnnycheese
Pro
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posted May 04, 2004 08:46 AM
quote:
who can explain why the aggregate A/F was 12.7?? JC? Anyone?
with the individual pipes giving 12.7 & 13.5, why wouldn't the aggregate A/F be 13.1??? the cylinders obviously all move the same amount of air....
My thought is that the O2 is only going read the richest period I am in the middle of mapping and then throwing the can on to see what the different number out the rear would be
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted May 04, 2004 09:11 AM
eh..that doesnt make a whole lotta sense.
The lambda sensor generates an electrical signal created from the fuel in the exhaust reacting with the rare earth elements in the sensor itself.....with the sensor in the exhaust midpipe...it should be a collective reading of all the pipes.
The only way I could see the reading being different in each primary vs the "collective" reading....is if certain primarys flow much less (or more) respectively....thus making the total amount of unburnt fuel in the exhaust in comparison to the rest of the airflow less than the average of the whole.
So in your testing..the middle two primarys have to be flowing much more air (or perhaps cooler more dense air in comparison to the outside two) to make the aggregate 12.7:1 ratio.
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted May 04, 2004 09:17 AM
you guys are applying rocket science to a sandbox. just put the big pills in it, dont be scared. Ratio schmatio.. what does it run at the track!! Get off the dyno and get some seat time.
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted May 04, 2004 09:58 AM
quote:
you guys are applying rocket science to a sandbox. just put the big pills in it, dont be scared. Ratio schmatio.. what does it run at the track!! Get off the dyno and get some seat time.
It melts #1 piston on the track
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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BA
Pro
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posted May 04, 2004 01:48 PM
lol!!!!! now there's an answer I wasn't expecting!
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted May 04, 2004 05:39 PM
sorry I was in a mood 
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