deathpulse
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posted July 03, 2003 02:22 PM
How long is synthetic good for?
I have another stupid oil question. How long in months before I should change out a good synthetic oil? I put Motul 300v 15 50 into my 12 the day before the last super sunday at Marcus Dairy last year, and I haven't changed it yet. Only about 2K miles on the bike, but the oils been in there since October... is that bad?
  
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Megabyte
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posted July 03, 2003 02:26 PM
Personally, I'd say you're due, but 15/50? Do you have a lot of miles ?
quote:
I have another stupid oil question. How long in months before I should change out a good synthetic oil? I put Motul 300v 15 50 into my 12 the day before the last super sunday at Marcus Dairy last year, and I haven't changed it yet. Only about 2K miles on the bike, but the oils been in there since October... is that bad?
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your car is slow
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posted July 03, 2003 02:27 PM
I would...but thats just me 
Im sure the oil itself is fine..however I doubt the additivies or detergents have survived that long hibernation.
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deathpulse
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posted July 03, 2003 02:30 PM
I only have 5,500 on her megabyte - the dealer advised me that 15-50 or 10-50 is good for all weather (extreme cold to extreme hot) riding. Is that not true? I just picked up some BelRay 10-50 synthetic on dealer advice...
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deathpulse
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posted July 03, 2003 04:27 PM
WEll, I got the old girl apart, only to find that my GF threw out my oil filter wrench. Sometimes life just sux. To make matters worse - the local sears only had the strap kind of wrech (I hate them). Looks like she'll be nekid (my BIKE not my GF =) ) till tomorrow. DAMNIT.
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tuusinii
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posted July 03, 2003 09:46 PM
Oil filter wrench? You don't need one - just use Your hand(s). In ZX12 the filter is very vissible and easy to open/close by hand. That also lessens the probability to overtighten the filter.
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted July 03, 2003 10:44 PM
stab it with a screwdriver..itll come off
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entropy
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posted July 04, 2003 07:14 AM
quote:
stab it with a screwdriver..itll come off
yep! i've been doing that for years and even have a favorite (metric) phillips which works great! 
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dougmeyer
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posted July 04, 2003 08:10 AM
Use a big channel lock if the screwdriver method is too offensive.......
I change my Motul once a year before I quit riding for the winter. (But I only put a couple K on the 12 each summer).
That stuff sure shifts nice doesn't it?
Doug
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
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posted July 04, 2003 08:25 AM
...anybody using MOTOREX full synth oil?....
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ScaredyCat
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posted July 04, 2003 09:02 AM
BIG BUT here:
If the thing REALLY doesn't want to come off, OK, stab it, but only stab the TOP of the filter, don't go in at an angle - the male threads are in there. I reckon the top 1.5 inches are safe.
(Not from personal bad experience, but from luck after I did just this and then looked at where the screwdriver had gone).
 
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ScaredyCat
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posted July 04, 2003 10:13 AM
Doug,
You referring to Motul? It was always hard to get in the UK, and probably harder where I am, but is there a real difference to the quality of shifting gears with different oils?
I know that normal engine oil isn't designed to deal with the high shear stresses imposed by gear teeth, but does this affect the "feel" of shifting?
My favourite was always Silkolene Pro 4 Racing, but that was a couple of years back (and 'cos it looked like you could eat it) - what's the best now?
Serious question, I want the best for my baby.......
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deathpulse
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posted July 04, 2003 11:05 AM
Well, I just put BellRay into the ol crank case . I'll let you guys know how my "butt dyno" likes the BellRay as compared to the Motul. BTW - I got some cheezy tool from BJ's. Its a plastic handle with a rubber strap on it.. there is a "tension" button where you tension up the strap, then use it to crank off things. THE TOOLS SUCK -but hey it worked, and I guess I really can't complain for 9 bucks! Is it just me, or do the body work fasteners on the '12 just SUCK ASS?
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slug
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Out in search of my mind...
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posted July 04, 2003 12:58 PM
hrmm
a big part of changing the oil is to get the crap that gathers in the oil out, regardless of the condition of the actual oil.
unburnt fuel that gets in, combined with the humidity, can form acids, which will eat the daylights out of the relatively soft metal parts inthe engine.
i sorta wince when i hear someone saying htey do 6000 miles between changes on synthetic. sure theoil probably lubricates just fine, but it is the other crap that worries me.
i use the mobil1 15-50 from wallyworld in the 600r, clutch is fine, even with 38k on it (stock clutch) and it DOES shift nice :-)
but realize a big part of the oil change is getting the junk out...
 
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deathpulse
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posted July 04, 2003 03:48 PM
Any recommendations for getting crap out slug? I kinda just drain it, then "Wobble" the bike back and forth (to let all of the oil come out that I possibly can. Any better ideas?
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jonwright
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posted July 04, 2003 06:41 PM
Well, the crap Slug is talking is particulate and also suspended in the oil itself (assuming the oil is doing its job). The detergents grab the impurities and hold them to prevent them from sticking to your engine.
There might be differences in shifting between oils, but I personally haven't noticed a big difference between regular Kawi dino oil and Mobil1 MX4T (Motorcycle synth).
BUT - I DO notice a big difference between my sweet shifting Gixxer and the 12. Zook does know how to make a gear box. Yammy's suck ass.
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Megabyte
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posted July 04, 2003 08:49 PM
A mechanic I once knew believed you should run the lightest weight oil your machine could handle because lighter weight oil lubricates better.
quote:
I only have 5,500 on her megabyte - the dealer advised me that 15-50 or 10-50 is good for all weather (extreme cold to extreme hot) riding. Is that not true? I just picked up some BelRay 10-50 synthetic on dealer advice...
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dougmeyer
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posted July 05, 2003 12:39 PM
Mega,
Your mechanic mistaken. Listening to too many "old wives".
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deathpulse
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posted July 05, 2003 02:17 PM
Hey thanks AGAIN Doug - I was actually going to do a reply last night to see if I could get your opion on that!! =). Unrelated question Doug - any chance Muzzy will ever make a cool aftermarket (titanium or something) body fastener kit for the '12 ?? Prolly not, but I bet there is a market for it... hmm.. maybe I should make them....
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Megabyte
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posted July 05, 2003 08:28 PM
 Edited By: Megabyte on 6 Jul 2003 12:39
Doug.
I realize that logic alone can lead one astray, but it makes since to me that a lighter weight oil would lubricate better in tighter tolerance than a heavier weight. I would greatly appreciate some education on this topic. If heavier is better, why not run 100 weight ?
Thanks
quote:
Mega,
Your mechanic mistaken. Listening to too many "old wives".
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ScaredyCat
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posted July 06, 2003 04:10 AM
I'll give my two cents on the oil question later, but deathpulse, yep, the fasteners are the shits.
I saw a picture on here of a bike which was up for sale, with Dzus fasteners on the cowling sides (maybe more, not sure).
I'd buy a kit of some nice properly-fitting Dzus fasteners now if I knew where to get them.
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ScaredyCat
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posted July 06, 2003 06:17 AM
OK,
Just thought I'd let rip. I work for an oil company, but this isn't a brand rant I promise - I won't even mention which one it is.
If "thinner is better", (which it is up to a point - with women only -IMHO), then we'd all be running sewing-machine oil in our bikes. Not a good idea.
The reality is that the forces induced in an engine need an intrinsic shear-stress resistance, which is provided by the viscosity or "weight" of oil.
Big-end white-metal bearings, for example, operate without metal-to-metal contact. Weird huh? The clearances are so small that each pulse (power or return stroke) simply squashes the oil between the bearing surfaces.
If you strip an engine which has been run near-continuously, and hasn't had cold, oilless starts, ther big ends will be pristine. Cold starts are what gives you the scuff marks.
There are a lot of oil additives around (and used in commonly-available oils), some of which are definately not good for a bike.
Molyebdynum additives, for example, gets ingrained on clutch plates, and leaves you with a slipping clutch. Changing the oil won't help, the stuff sticks to the plates.
These friction-modifier enhanced oils are great for cars, which usually have separate engines and gearboxes, not so good when sharing the lubricant (like we do).
The W numbers are based on the viscosityat different temperatures. started when so-called "multigrade" oil was touted. There's lots available on this online.
My personal feelings are:
Mineral for running in, 1000 miles, or until you start feeling so much mechanical sympathy you just have to switch to synth.
Then a fully synthetic BIKE-designed oil. Don't believe anyone who tells you that this is the same oil as the car stuff but more expensive. It's not.
Rant over.
:-)
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deathpulse
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posted July 06, 2003 06:26 AM
WOW nice explanation ScaredyCat , THANKS!!! (and great pix BTW). So, a 10-50 is as good or better then 10-30??
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ScaredyCat
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posted July 06, 2003 06:57 AM
Deathpulse,
OK, I could bore you to tears about this, but I'll try no tto.....
It depends on the temperatures (i.e. cold start temperatures mostly) that you're going to be running with.
In a very (pretty lengthy) nutshell:
Multigrade oils are made to meet the requirements of more than one viscosity grade from the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). The SAE 15W-50 designation indicates that the oil acts like an SAE 15W at cold temperatures and an SAE 50 at normal operating temperatures. (The "W" initially stood for "winter" when multigrade motor oils were first introduced.) The lower number in front of the "W" shows you the oil's performance when it's being started or cranked over. A smaller number indicates a better ability to flow at lower temperatures. Similarly, the "50" means that the oil will provide better lube when it's hot.
if you've got an old engine, you'd be better off with a heavier oil (to stop it migrating up into your combustion chamber). It's generally not a problem with Kwaks though, 'cos by then you've fixed the problem!
In my opinion. etc.
Go on, ask me another.....
hehehehe
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Megabyte
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posted July 06, 2003 11:42 AM
This is becoming an interesting and informative thread. I've got 3k miles on my 1361. Would you recommend that I go to a 15/50 Full Synthetic, like Mobil 1?
Thanks,
quote:
Deathpulse,
OK, I could bore you to tears about this, but I'll try no tto.....
It depends on the temperatures (i.e. cold start temperatures mostly) that you're going to be running with.
In a very (pretty lengthy) nutshell:
Multigrade oils are made to meet the requirements of more than one viscosity grade from the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). The SAE 15W-50 designation indicates that the oil acts like an SAE 15W at cold temperatures and an SAE 50 at normal operating temperatures. (The "W" initially stood for "winter" when multigrade motor oils were first introduced.) The lower number in front of the "W" shows you the oil's performance when it's being started or cranked over. A smaller number indicates a better ability to flow at lower temperatures. Similarly, the "50" means that the oil will provide better lube when it's hot.
if you've got an old engine, you'd be better off with a heavier oil (to stop it migrating up into your combustion chamber). It's generally not a problem with Kwaks though, 'cos by then you've fixed the problem!
In my opinion. etc.
Go on, ask me another.....
hehehehe
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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