old man on a 1427
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 16, 2010 12:28 PM
1427 rebuild
i hav been reading all your great posts. thank you.. i was directed to ask entropy about my broken 1427. need direction. old
  
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 16, 2010 09:24 PM
quote:
i hav been reading all your great posts. thank you.. i was directed to ask entropy about my broken 1427. need direction. old
what's broken?
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old man on a 1427
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 17, 2010 03:28 AM
quote:
quote:
i hav been reading all your great posts. thank you.. i was directed to ask entropy about my broken 1427. need direction. old
what's broken?
hope u and your family are well. had a spill and broke the case at the rear mounting bolts. so i need a case. the engine only has 500 or so miles on it. expensive mistake. i am new to computers so i did not know all this experience and know how was available. since i hav to rebuild it do u hav any suggestions. its a muzzys kit. stock rods. ported head with blended intake boots. muzzys cams...cant find my build sheet for degree #s...im looking. 13.8/1 comp. no balancer. muzzys vel stks and clutch. arata ti pipe. timing rotor +2deg. muzzy fuel pump. i dont race it. just for fun. i want to throw the kitchen sink at it this time. thanks. old
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old man on a 1427
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 17, 2010 03:33 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
i hav been reading all your great posts. thank you.. i was directed to ask entropy about my broken 1427. need direction. old
what's broken?
hope u and your family are well. had a spill and broke the case at the rear mounting bolts. so i need a case. the engine only has 500 or so miles on it. expensive mistake. i am new to computers so i did not know all this experience and know how was available. since i hav to rebuild it do u hav any suggestions. its a muzzys kit. stock rods. ported head with blended intake boots. muzzys cams...cant find my build sheet for degree #s...im looking. 13.8/1 comp. no balancer. muzzys vel stks and clutch. arata ti pipe. timing rotor +2deg. muzzy fuel pump. i dont race it. just for fun. i want to throw the kitchen sink at it this time. thanks. old
opps forgot to ask if u think Sal at aceperf. could do a good job. i know he likes the smaller engines. but i dont want to waste what i already have.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 17, 2010 06:06 AM
". i want to throw the kitchen sink at it this time. thanks"
sounds like a new set of cases would put you right, $950 brand new.
I assume you have a Powercommander? Why the mechanical advance???
Are you looking keep it streetable, run on pump gas?
Sal does great work; don't know how much experience he has with the offset cyl of the 1427.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 17, 2010 07:32 AM
If the motor has not been taken apart your mechanic can get your cam numbers.
You may be able to get the mounting holes fixed at a good shop much cheaper than rebuilding the engine and buying cases.
If not there are used cases around, should not be hard to find.
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted May 17, 2010 03:24 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
i hav been reading all your great posts. thank you.. i was directed to ask entropy about my broken 1427. need direction. old
what's broken?
hope u and your family are well. had a spill and broke the case at the rear mounting bolts. so i need a case. the engine only has 500 or so miles on it. expensive mistake. i am new to computers so i did not know all this experience and know how was available. since i hav to rebuild it do u hav any suggestions. its a muzzys kit. stock rods. ported head with blended intake boots. muzzys cams...cant find my build sheet for degree #s...im looking. 13.8/1 comp. no balancer. muzzys vel stks and clutch. arata ti pipe. timing rotor +2deg. muzzy fuel pump. i dont race it. just for fun. i want to throw the kitchen sink at it this time. thanks. old
opps forgot to ask if u think Sal at aceperf. could do a good job. i know he likes the smaller engines. but i dont want to waste what i already have.
Sal likes the FASTER engines..... whether it be bigger or smaller.
Bigger isn't always better.... if it was, Ace Performance's 1287's wouldn't stand a change against all the big stroker 12's competing in land speed racing, yet they have no equals regardless of displacement. (as far as Kawasaki's are concerned... The Busa's are a different story!)
Going to a slightly smaller (say 3 x 3) engine wouldn't be a waste, it would be an improvement in reliability, longevity, and most likely performance if set-up according to Sal's specs. Do you want the baddest engine or just the biggest possible? There IS a difference.
There's a reason his wall is covered with over 30 land speed records ranging from the 650cc class to the 2000cc class.... not to mention a couple dozen records set by bikes he's built and tuned for others..... all in just the last few years, not over the span of 3 decades or anything like that.
............. and not one of his motors have ever blown up.... EVER.
If Sal is steering you away from a 1427..... listen to him.
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 18, 2010 01:58 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 18 May 2010 15:41
Hey Mike, does Sal pay you for posting this stuff?????
You have a bright future in advertising!
old man,
Mike is 100% correct in that Sal builds the fastest lil displacement LSR 12's on the planet.
But, for street. and the drags, the 1427 purely kills the non stroker 1270/1287
Change yr config, and dump the crank, pistons & block for a "3 x 3" (custom crank) ?????
WHY?
The 1427 makes a great combo for the street if built right.
And Mike,
You probably forgot that My Y2K 1427 and Jim's Y2K 1427 are #1 & #2 fastest NA Kawasaki's in the world, by a margin of about 10mph+/- 
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted May 18, 2010 05:32 AM
+1 
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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old man on a 1427
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 18, 2010 01:52 PM
quote:
". i want to throw the kitchen sink at it this time. thanks"
sounds like a new set of cases would put you right, $950 brand new.
I assume you have a Powercommander? Why the mechanical advance???
Are you looking keep it streetable, run on pump gas?
Sal does great work; don't know how much experience he has with the offset cyl of the 1427.
my zx12s hav all been y2ks. my first was in 2000. pipe powercommander timing rotor. i must hav missed something???teach me...old
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old man on a 1427
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 18, 2010 02:16 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
i hav been reading all your great posts. thank you.. i was directed to ask entropy about my broken 1427. need direction. old
what's broken?
hope u and your family are well. had a spill and broke the case at the rear mounting bolts. so i need a case. the engine only has 500 or so miles on it. expensive mistake. i am new to computers so i did not know all this experience and know how was available. since i hav to rebuild it do u hav any suggestions. its a muzzys kit. stock rods. ported head with blended intake boots. muzzys cams...cant find my build sheet for degree #s...im looking. 13.8/1 comp. no balancer. muzzys vel stks and clutch. arata ti pipe. timing rotor +2deg. muzzy fuel pump. i dont race it. just for fun. i want to throw the kitchen sink at it this time. thanks. old
opps forgot to ask if u think Sal at aceperf. could do a good job. i know he likes the smaller engines. but i dont want to waste what i already have.
Sal likes the FASTER engines..... whether it be bigger or smaller.
Bigger isn't always better.... if it was, Ace Performance's 1287's wouldn't stand a change against all the big stroker 12's competing in land speed racing, yet they have no equals regardless of displacement. (as far as Kawasaki's are concerned... The Busa's are a different story!)
Going to a slightly smaller (say 3 x 3) engine wouldn't be a waste, it would be an improvement in reliability, longevity, and most likely performance if set-up according to Sal's specs. Do you want the baddest engine or just the biggest possible? There IS a difference.
There's a reason his wall is covered with over 30 land speed records ranging from the 650cc class to the 2000cc class.... not to mention a couple dozen records set by bikes he's built and tuned for others..... all in just the last few years, not over the span of 3 decades or anything like that.
............. and not one of his motors have ever blown up.... EVER.
If Sal is steering you away from a 1427..... listen to him.
i wish i could hav known what i know now. problem is i hav 15000$ with only 500 miles on it. CAN SAL GET THE MOST OUT OF MY 15GRAND. I WILL SPEND WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE A 1427 FROM HELL. i am not LSP or DRAG . im 71 years old i want the f%#king kitchen sink...ceramic bearings.. titanim valves...my wife died last year...my 2 daughters are married and forgot about me...my son is racing my 8.90 big block dodge with 2 kids and a wife. i want 2 spend what i hav left...on a stock suspended unrideable almost unstreetable 0-180mphableinablinkofaneyeball ZX!@R.
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old man on a 1427
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 18, 2010 02:34 PM
quote:
Hey Mike, does Sal pay you for posting this stuff?????
You have a bright future in advertising!
old man,
Mike is 100% correct in that Sal builds the fastest lil displacement LSR 12's on the planet.
But, for street. and the drags, the 1427 purely kills the non stroker 1270/1287
Change yr config, and dump the crank, pistons & block for a "3 x 3" (custom crank) ?????
WHY?
The 1427 makes a great combo for the street if built right.
And Mike,
You probably forgot that My Y2K 1427 and Jim's Y2K 1427 are #1 & #2 fastest NA Kawasaki's in the world, by a margin of about 10mph+/-
thanks for the encouragement. i built my motor i crashed. but when my wife died i couldnt live there anymore...i sold my garage shop...DONT LET ANYONE EVER TELL U TO DO THAT...FUCK! they think i am old. i did crash recently...broke my hand in 3 places...my foot in 2...and the rear engine mounts on my 12 FK...i am old...but i am not dead yet. i want the baddest 1427 this side of 15to 1 comp. any suggestions.
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted May 18, 2010 04:55 PM
The guy who bought my zx12r wants to sell it. He just cant afford to finish the other bike builds he has going on and race my 12r.
Its a great street zx12r and makes well over 220 hp. It runs on pump gas and can be pushed up another 15 or so HP with 49mm throttle bodies and more compression. you may need to use an octane boosting additive with pump gas on the street if you were to do that. But it can be done very, very easily.
You could then part out the 12r you have and i'll bet theres a few guys on here that would buy the engine as is off of you.
In the long run it would be cheeper.
Just figured I'd let ya know.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted May 18, 2010 05:24 PM
Edited By: Phantom13 on 19 May 2010 01:40
quote:
Hey Mike, does Sal pay you for posting this stuff?????
You have a bright future in advertising!
Yes, Sal does pay me for posting this stuff.... with this.
quote:
old man,
Mike is 100% correct in that Sal builds the fastest lil displacement LSR 12's on the planet.
But, for street. and the drags, the 1427 purely kills the non stroker 1270/1287
Garden variety vs Garden variety... you are correct. No doubt about it, but is the BIGGEST combo necessarily going to perform the best? I've found that bigger isn't always better.... "Better" is better. Will it live after beating on it for a few race seasons or will it pop at random? I know none of our bikes have ever popped, melted, or clunked and we don't rebuild them after every race either.... just once a year to check for wear, and that's only on our abused racebikes that spend 99% of their time at 100% throttle. Can the the same performance be had with a smaller combo in displacement but set-up to work more efficiently? I think so.
quote:
Change yr config, and dump the crank, pistons & block for a "3 x 3" (custom crank) ?????
WHY?
The 1427 makes a great combo for the street if built right.
"3 X 3" refers to +3mm bore X +3mm stroke. It's how we refer to engine combo's, simplistic... I know, but it saves breath/keystrokes.
As for the "WHY?"..... well...... the pro's heavily outweigh the cons in a streetable application, in my humble opinion. Maybe I'm wrong, but Sal and I both feel the same and for various reasons. In our experience, we've had success by being able to build reliable engines that can and do stand up to the repeated abuse it will see in the real world. Engines that work more efficiently rather than work harder to achieve a certain level of performance. You CAN have your cake and eat it too in regards to a race engine for a streetbike... it's all in the build and set-up. Dale's and my own 1287 are as streetable as they come, run on pump gas, never overheat, run on a single stock battery, stock crank, counterbalencer still in, Full charging system, stock rods, stock valves, stock buckets, stock retainers, ..... you get the point. Nothing fancy or exotic.... just a very well built engine that has ran faster in the standing mile than any Naturally Aspirated Kawasaki on earth at 212.8mph. There's still a couple MPH left in the tuning after reviewing the logs of the 212.8mph run, we're hoping to see 215mph in good conditions next time around for both our 1287's.
Yes, I've been out of the game since Texas 08, but I haven't been sleeping. Everything that's been done to Dale's bike has been done to mine as well. I'm hoping to see between 208-210mph N/A with my 195 lb 6'1" butt in the seat in calm conditions on a cool day. Oh well, we'll see what happens at the next Miami Mile.
quote:
And Mike,
You probably forgot that My Y2K 1427 and Jim's Y2K 1427 are #1 & #2 fastest NA Kawasaki's in the world, by a margin of about 10mph+/-
Yes Sir, you guys have posted the fastest speeds recorded on an N/A Kawasaki.....
....... but is it the fastest bike? I think I know a couple bikes that may be able to give you a run for your money. =)
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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old man on a 1427
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 18, 2010 06:18 PM
quote:
The guy who bought my zx12r wants to sell it. He just cant afford to finish the other bike builds he has going on and race my 12r.
Its a great street zx12r and makes well over 220 hp. It runs on pump gas and can be pushed up another 15 or so HP with 49mm throttle bodies and more compression. you may need to use an octane boosting additive with pump gas on the street if you were to do that. But it can be done very, very easily.
You could then part out the 12r you have and i'll bet theres a few guys on here that would buy the engine as is off of you.
In the long run it would be cheeper.
Just figured I'd let ya know.
did u get my pm? old
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 18, 2010 06:31 PM
focusing less on top speed, wouldnt a properly built stroker be more fun to drive from the major low end tq? you know, stop light to stop light, roll ons ect. less need to down shift, less clutch slip required to pull away...
lets try to remember this guys request, and not let the top speed wars get in the way
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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old man on a 1427
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 18, 2010 06:59 PM
quote:
focusing less on top speed, wouldnt a properly built stroker be more fun to drive from the major low end tq? you know, stop light to stop light, roll ons ect. less need to down shift, less clutch slip required to pull away...
lets try to remember this guys request, and not let the top speed wars get in the way
kz thanks! i want 2 know if sal or someone can take what i hav and turn it into the 0-180 nightmare i dream about. i hav what i already described. i hav new falicon knife edge rods. what about ti valves? crazy valve jobs. 48-49-50 throttle bodies. ceramic trans bearings???etc...1427 from HELL! money is no barrier. a wish list of to does...polish...nife edge crank...better than muzzy cams...suggestions...list of suppliers...a witch doctor builder i am all ears.
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted May 18, 2010 07:32 PM
quote:
focusing less on top speed, wouldnt a properly built stroker be more fun to drive from the major low end tq? you know, stop light to stop light, roll ons ect. less need to down shift, less clutch slip required to pull away...
lets try to remember this guys request, and not let the top speed wars get in the way
Fighting wheelies and begging for traction from a dig may be "fun" but it makes for a very poor performing set-up in actual practice.
One thing I learned while street racing at the 9/10th's is that if you're fighting the front end or spinning in first gear.... you lost the race if the other guy can pin it out of the gate. It's hard to make up lost distance on the hit, and if someone gets out on you by a couple bikelengths and stays there for a few gears.... he's most likely going to let off before you get a chance to reel him in.
That's why you don't want an overwelming engine on the street. You want the power delievery to be smooth and able to reach the ground with the throttle pinned as soon as possible. Going quick on the street is based on the same principles as the drag strip, but require different set-up's due to the conditions of their respective venues.
This has nothing to do with top speed wars, it's about building the best monster engine for the STREET. Anything with a stroker crank and big bore pistons will be fun on the street regardless if it's a 3mm overbore and 3mm stroke or 4mm overbore and 4.6mm stroke. Only one will probably live longer and be quicker on the street with the average joe in the saddle and jockey alike.
Agree or Disagree?
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before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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Texas12R
Zone Head
Posts: 545
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posted May 18, 2010 07:37 PM
Who's closer Jim or Karl...
There is a turbo for sale in the classified section
for a lttle less than half what you put into your 1427
I'd like to see you get it done.....
Michael
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted May 19, 2010 09:32 AM
My 1427 could easily light the rear tire just by banging the throtle at 50mph in 2nd gear.
Lose street races, sure, but REALLY fun
Mike, the issue here is not to design the "best" possible street weapon.
Rather, it is to help the old man (hey, i'm 61, so i can say it ) take what he has and turn it quickly into a reliable street weapon.
Very easy task for Jim, me, or Sal.
Jim's too busy,
I am tied up,
Sal?
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted May 19, 2010 09:45 AM
I left a message with the guy who bought my zx12.... he should be calling you tonight.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted May 19, 2010 02:47 PM
Oh my, how embarrassing... I completely misunderstood his desired application for the bike. My apologies!
I was under the impression he wanted to race the bike on the street and be untouchable.
Clearly, I was mistaken.
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted May 19, 2010 04:29 PM
quote:
My 1427 could easily light the rear tire just by banging the throtle at 50mph in 2nd gear.
Lose street races, sure, but REALLY fun
Mike, the issue here is not to design the "best" possible street weapon.
Rather, it is to help the old man (hey, i'm 61, so i can say it ) take what he has and turn it quickly into a reliable street weapon.
Very easy task for Jim, me, or Sal.
Jim's too busy,
I am tied up,
Sal?
Karl, how come your all tied up? Is the 12r getting a wash and wax? 
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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tshultz
Zone Head
Posts: 556
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posted May 19, 2010 06:02 PM
quote:
My 1427 could easily light the rear tire just by banging the throtle at 50mph in 2nd gear.
Lose street races, sure, but REALLY fun
Mike, the issue here is not to design the "best" possible street weapon.
Rather, it is to help the old man (hey, i'm 61, so i can say it ) take what he has and turn it quickly into a reliable street weapon.
Very easy task for Jim, me, or Sal.
Jim's too busy,
I am tied up,
Sal?
johnny cheese?
bob carpenter ?
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old man on a 1427
Parking Attendant
Posts: 15
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posted May 20, 2010 04:00 PM
quote:
". i want to throw the kitchen sink at it this time. thanks"
sounds like a new set of cases would put you right, $950 brand new.
I assume you have a Powercommander? Why the mechanical advance???
Are you looking keep it streetable, run on pump gas?
Sal does great work; don't know how much experience he has with the offset cyl of the 1427.
yes i hav a pwr cmnder am i screwing up with the rotor? its a ytk12???
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