supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 11, 2010 10:05 AM
Call Me Crazy... But
I found an interesting web site on the history of the zx12r. This computer won't let me post link so here it is..
www.zx11.info/zx12r/history/beginning.htm
If you scroll down you will see a schematic of the air box and filter element. Notice that the filter element is a one piece unit and not 2. ( I have recently removed this center plate that separates the 2 air filters. Found a 1 piece K&N that will fit)
The zx12r was initially designed to have a one piece filter element. After removing a plate I notice the galley under the plate was consisted across suggesting the additional piece was added later.
On a nascar website: www.jayski.com/stats/restrictor.htm It shows the reduction in top speed from a 390cfm restrictor plate to a 1 inch restrictor plate. Top speed went from 203.82 to 193.83. This is a 5 percent reduction in top speed.
A German Magazine quoted the top speed of the zx12r at 193.75. Doug Meyer 192.307 on a hot day. In perfect conditions lets assume 194 mph. If my restrictor plate theory holds a stock zx12r (186mph limit shut off 2001-2005 models) the zx12r will hit 198-202 mph in good conditions. (2000 Models same with plate removed) 1.25 by 5 inches. Overall area of single filter 60 square inches. This is a 10.4% reduction in air flow.
Since I hit my head on a water pipe last November I have been unable to ride my bike longer than a few trips around the block. I'm suffering from post concussion syndrome. It really sucks. Hopefully the vertigo will improve and I can go and test my ideas. This is why I do my threading than riding 
supra.
   
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gsxrassassin
Expert Class
Posts: 225
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posted May 11, 2010 12:57 PM
Now if only a BMC Race filter could be fit for that oopen section.
GSXR
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Over the hump, back up and running again!!
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 11, 2010 01:15 PM
Got that covered: K&N Filter Part number 33-2368. 2006 Kia!
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thekaz
Needs a job
spell chequer is bustimicated
Posts: 2909
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posted May 11, 2010 02:39 PM
pictures ???
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 11, 2010 03:17 PM
yes. I have the before and after picture stored on my pc. Having trouble getting them over to bikeland...
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gsxrassassin
Expert Class
Posts: 225
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posted May 12, 2010 05:47 AM
So if the big port is open are the little side ports still in use too?
GSXR
____________
Over the hump, back up and running again!!
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 12, 2010 07:52 AM
Be a little bit more specific. Side ports?
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted May 12, 2010 07:56 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 12 May 2010 15:59
Supra, email me the pics and I will host and post them:
Shane @ warp 12 racing dot com
Very interesting! Also, what did you use to cut the frame?
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 12, 2010 08:27 AM
Ok. I have them on my laptop and palm pre plus. Give me one day or so. By the way I am convinced the zx12r's ram air system is working. I am also convinced based on what the blue prints show in the above article, a restrictor plate was put into the air box to reduce air flow.
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Shane661
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Posts: 11494
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posted May 12, 2010 08:48 AM
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 12, 2010 09:29 AM
I was able to get the bottom piece shown above out as well.. Will post later ..
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hyper12r
Expert Class
Posts: 119
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posted May 12, 2010 01:35 PM
thanks supra good to learn something new ... but just wondering,will the single piece air filter warp at high rpm/air pressure?
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 12, 2010 02:23 PM
I'm in the process of ordering the filter now. I don't think so because the original design had a single air filter. The fit is pretty snug. We shall see...
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 12, 2010 04:08 PM
Im guessing a piece of safety wire would hold a filter from bending in the middle.
I wonder if Doug/Muzzys ever tried anything like this?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 14, 2010 06:57 AM
Filter is in. Slid right in. If you want a "perfect fit" you might want to trim the edges a tad, but it seals well. Seat of the pants throttle response feels better at low speeds . Anybody know of a good data logger and mount?
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oldkawboy
Needs a job
Posts: 2125
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posted May 14, 2010 07:11 AM
Daytona Sensors has a nice, small unit that logs a/f ratio, rpm & throttle position.
What you've done is very interesting, thanks for sharing.
Dan
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted May 14, 2010 07:49 AM
Very Interesting!!!
____________
2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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hyper12r
Expert Class
Posts: 119
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posted May 14, 2010 10:36 AM
supra do you have pics of the filter inside the airbox?
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 14, 2010 11:42 AM
I can take it back apart. give me some time though...
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted May 14, 2010 01:11 PM
Point 1
The flaw in your argument is that you are assuming that the (original) 2-filter opening in the airbox is the limiting factor in the engine's ability to breath (consume air sufficient air to burn sufficient fuel to create sufficient power). It is not, so.... making it any larger will not have an effect on power. Your assumption that because you are making a 10.4% increase in area that you will get a 10.4 increase in flow (and a subsequent 10.4% increase in power) is also erroneous because it does not take into account AT WHAT PRESSURE that flow is expected to occur.
Point 2
A 1200cc engine making 185 hp at 12,000 rpm requires ABOUT 370 pounds of air per hour to do that. 370 pounds per hour is 6.1 pounds per minute, which is 78.62 cubic feet per minute (on a standard day). How big a "hole" does it take to pass 79 CFM? Wellll...... A quick check of the handy Machinery's Handbook tells me that, with an air velocity of only 30 feet per second (20mph), ONE 6" round opening (28 sq. in.) will pass 353 CFM. I'd guess that you have at least twice that.
This is just a wild ass, back of the envelope engineering, guess, of course, but..
Clearly, you are wasting your time.
____________
It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 14, 2010 02:26 PM
1. I'm not saying that a 10.4 percent increase in volume with give you a 10.4 percent increase in power. I never said that.
2. If you look at my nascar restrictor plate example it clearly show the difference between a carb with a restrictor plate and one without.
3. Where we part ways is your point 1. Any plate, or blockage that restricts airflow on ANY engine ALWAYS limits and engine ability to breath. Whether or not the volume is adequate is not the issue. The issue is whether it is optimum.
To put my money where my mouth is: Mr. Meyer next time you or anyone else with top speed riding skill is at Loring, or Maxton. Test 1 zx12r with the 186 limiter removed. 1 run with the plate in and one run with the plate out. I'll put up $200.00 betting the run without the plate will net a minimum of 4 mph. Anyone can try this. I will accept gps, or electronic timed speed.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted May 14, 2010 03:30 PM
1. OK, an incorrect inference,but understandable, since generally speaking power increases more or less with the increase in airflow (given the ability to maintain A/F ratio).
2. Talk about apples and oranges. You're comparing a 1.2 L 185 hp, engine to a 5.9 liter 750+ hp engine. The total area of the carb bores on a cup engine is maybe 20 sq. in. (Y2KZX12 would know exactly) which is right around the total on the ZX-12. ANY change in the cup engine carb size will have a profound effect on power.
Please tell me you see why this comparison is bogus.
3.The point of my response is to explain to you is that the volume is MORE than adequate for the power required and desired and therefore the changes you propose are moot.
Somebody please take Mr. Supra's money
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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Bigbore4
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted May 14, 2010 06:46 PM
Good info Supra, but you've missed the boat by a bit.
The Nascar throttle restrictors under the throttle, Not restricting Airflow to the throttle.
Big difference.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted May 14, 2010 07:04 PM
ahhh the voice of reason 
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted May 14, 2010 08:08 PM
quote:
I found an interesting web site on the history of the zx12r. This computer won't let me post link so here it is..
www.zx11.info/zx12r/history/beginning.htm
supra, I like your ingenuity  Maybe someone could explain why my stock 2k 12 made 3 more hp with a BMC race filter vs the stocker on back to back runs if less flow resistance isn't a factor in making more HP.
supra.
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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