shiggsy
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted November 19, 2009 03:21 PM
TPS 1090 vs TPS 1170 AFR Maps
Ok this is a follow on from thread:
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=51338&pagenumber=2
Stock TPS setting is 1.084-1.086 at 1000rpm.
The following show AFR charts were obtained using a single Sensor in the pipe before the End Can with the TPS Set below stock 1.040, above stock 1.125 and well above stock 1.200. These illustrate the higher the TPS the more uniform the AFR becomes across the throttle range. Lowering the TPS introdues a rich to lean effect with which becomes more pronounced the lower it goes, which can result in the bike falling flat or surging as it crosses back and forth over this threshold.
Throttle percentage is across the top, revs down the side and AFR values in the cells.
TPS below stock at 1.040
TPS above stock at 1.125
TPS Very high at 1.200
The next set of charts are at TPS 1.090 (as close to stock as I could find) There is one AFR and one EGT (Exhaust Gas Temp) chart for each pipe. Because the AFR switch happens suddenly moving from 6-7% The Power Commander cannot deal with this because it has adjustments at 5 and 10%. You can deduct from 5% and add to 10% but that only helps a bit. I believe 750 degrees c is safe max EGT and you can see some of the values go above 800.
TPS 1.090 #1
TPS 1.090 #2
TPS 1.090 #3
TPS 1.090 #4
These show the current charts for my bike with the TPS at 1.170 and me mapping each individual cylinder with a PC3USB . I call it 1.170 as this is what it measures at the Datalogger when it actually measures 1.163 at the TPS sensor. I settled on this area because it gave the best compromise at the expense of raising the TPS really high.
TPS 1.170 #1
TPS 1.170 #2
TPS 1.170 #3
TPS 1.170 #4
Finally this is 1.170 #1 showing the number of hits per cell to show where usage occurs.
The aim was to go for smoothness and economy as I use it for commuting. Like this the bike runs the best its ever run, smooth, no flat spots or surges and never returns less than 40mpg, usually 41-42. (btw I set the TPS with the bike ticking over at everyday RPMs which is about 1200 for me). Don't know if its right or wrong but it works for me.
I don't know what affect this has at the high end of the RPM range as my bike rarely gets to see above 6k rpm.
  
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twista
Zone Head
" Get up, and Stay up ! "
Posts: 797
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posted November 19, 2009 03:50 PM
Shiggs,, do you think i would like the bike more if i set it to 1.16 TPS? Drp recommended that setting also,, but i am a little scared to screw with the sensor,, should i be? on the multimeter it is at 1.02 right now,, and 100% is 4.28
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" When in Doubt, There is no Doubt !"
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kaw12
Expert Class
Posts: 172
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posted November 19, 2009 04:55 PM
shiggs, what happened when you set tps a little higher than where it is now.
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kaw12
Expert Class
Posts: 172
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posted November 19, 2009 04:58 PM
 Edited By: kaw12 on 20 Nov 2009 02:18
oh never mind i see it now
and
what are "hits" what does that mean?
the charts are great!
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shiggsy
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted November 20, 2009 01:13 AM
Edited By: shiggsy on 20 Nov 2009 09:24
twista
When I was experimenting with the TPS the further below stock I went the worse the bike ran. I think I went as far down down to 1.02 and it wasn't good. I think stock setting is the very least it should be at.
kaw12
Hits is simply the number of recorded logging points that meet that cells criteria. You spend a lot of time at 2% throttle at at 2500rpm as I seem to you'll get a high hit count there.
I also spotted I seem to have duplicated the heat map for TPS 1.170 #1 and
TPS 1.170 #2. I'll have a look tonight and try sort the picture out.
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 20, 2009 03:37 AM
Very interesting, but the stock 1.084-1.086 should be at 1000RPM, so one would assume that at Your 1200RPM it should be little bit more... The TPS is very sensitive so little differences can make big differences... Anyway it seems as many have noticed that it is essential to have the TPS set right and I've also noticed that it makes a difference also how the bike vibrates...
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shiggsy
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted November 20, 2009 03:47 AM
Yes stock TPS should be set at 1000rpm. But when I'm setting TPS at 1.170 I set it with the bike ticking over as I want that as my base voltage. There's little point in me setting it to 1.170 at 1000rpm.
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 20, 2009 09:23 AM
The ECU has two fuel maps for each cylinder. Alpha-N (AN) which is RPM vs TPS and Speed Density which the manual refers to as D-J and is RPM vs IAP (Inlet Air Pressure)
D-J is used at light load which the manual describes as idle to light load.
Alpha-N is used during middle to heavy load.
I think what you are seeing in the stock (1.090) readings at 6-7% is the bike transitioning from D-J to Alpha-N mode.
I have to say I'm a little perplexed as to what is actually happening when you up the idle Throttle sensor voltage to 1.170. I assume your messing with the D-J to Alpha-N switch point but I wouldn't expect it to show exactly the results your getting.
In your first set of tables at 1.090 do you know what the actual TPS voltage was at your indicated 6.0-7.0 % TPS?
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shiggsy
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted November 20, 2009 12:37 PM
Edited By: shiggsy on 20 Nov 2009 20:38
quote:
I think what you are seeing in the stock (1.090) readings at 6-7% is the bike transitioning from D-J to Alpha-N mode.
Maybe, odd that it seems to affect #4 the most though.
quote:
In your first set of tables at 1.090 do you know what the actual TPS voltage was at your indicated 6.0-7.0 % TPS?
Here you go, this is the 1.090 Cyl4 Map with Voltages across the top instead of percentages but in 1% jumps. Look like its 1.27 to 1.30.
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shiggsy
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted November 20, 2009 12:42 PM
Had a request to show the 1.170 Charts with a zero PC3 Map.
1.170 #1 Zero PC3 Map
1.170 #2 Zero PC3 Map
1.170 #3 Zero PC3 Map
1.170 #4 Zero PC3 Map
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Whimp
Parking Attendant
Posts: 26
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posted November 20, 2009 02:47 PM
Edited By: Whimp on 20 Nov 2009 22:49
I did a quick check today and according to my Dynojet wideband reading, with a baseline TPS setting at 1.06. 6% =1.24 7%=1.27 8%=1.29
So I guess if I reset my TPS up to 1.25 or so, i'm sort of moving the problem area down to the 0 to 2% area?
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shiggsy
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted November 21, 2009 05:10 AM
Edited By: shiggsy on 21 Nov 2009 13:10
The problem line will move down as you raise the TPS but it sort of disperses as it goes. Lowest I have seen it in effect is at 5%
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Whimp
Parking Attendant
Posts: 26
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posted November 21, 2009 09:41 AM
Good info and charts Shiggsy. When I get done raising my TPS, I'll also log a quarter mile pass and post what happens at the upper end of the map. Thanks, Duane
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted November 21, 2009 02:57 PM
that will be cool to see but a 1/4 pass is 100% tps voltage so it should not change much at all if you do passes at one voltage and a different voltage.
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