KZScott
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posted November 08, 2008 11:08 PM
high output stators
looking to gather some info. I put A LOT of electronics on my bike, and I believe some of my backfiring issues were caused by an inadequate charging system. I know my nitrous system and datalogger need lots of power allong with the other boxes. I put a large battery in it, but If i can do even better why not right? I was looking at the mod HPC does. they charge $165 to rewind your stator, and the result is 1.5 volts higher output than stock.
is this something that they alone should do or would any place that rebuilds this sort of thing be qualified? (maybe have a local alternator shop do it?)
i never thought that my charging system was bad untill after the fact(I thought a 12v system should be 12v), so i havent actually measured voltage at the battery when it was running. however my LM-1 would allways show me between 11.9 and 12.3 v on the startup screen. this is with the nitrous system off too. I realise now thats too low, and it would only be lower with the rest of my electronics running.
I have no idea what most of these need for power
I have the following on my bike:
LM-1 Data logger with LMA2 (rpm kit)
Power Commander 3 R
Schnitz PPI (kill box for airshifter)
EFIR-12
Schnitz RPM Window Switch
Muzzy bonny box (not sure if this even draws a current)
NOS fuel pump 15760
NOS super power shot fuel solenoid 16080 (0.6 amps)
NOS super power shot nitrous solenoid 16020 (8.6 amps)
Dynotune nitrous solenoid
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
  
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted November 08, 2008 11:52 PM
The solenoids and the fuel pump will draw the most current. I wouldn't be suprised if you have way over 20 amps of current being drawn by all the stuff. I had a stator re-wound for a ZX12R several years ago by Eurtonelectric.com. They did a good job but I dont know if it added any extra current capacity. You might check with them.. You could unplug your headlights which would help a little bit..
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shiggsy
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted November 09, 2008 04:13 AM
 Edited By: shiggsy on 9 Nov 2008 12:16
I have a little digital gauge wired, via a relay, directly to the battery so I have a real time readout of my voltage, most of the time it reads about 13.9v as I'm going along. If I turn the headlights off the voltage goes up, back on voltage goes down, but if I brake the opposite happens, brakelights on, voltage goes up, brake lights off, voltage goes down. This is because the headlight and brake lights are on two different circuits, headlights draw straight from the battey but the brake lights are drawing straight from the charging circuit.
The stator outputs full power all the time but the regulator decides how much voltage goes out to the bike, enough to run the electrics plus a bit extra to charge the battery ( it dumps the excess to ground). It knows how much to output because the charging circuit feeds back into the regulator, add extra draw to this circuit and the reglator will put out more voltage and the battery gets a higher charge.
So you can probably see where this is going. Now I don't know if this is recommended or not but its what I do, I have some of my electrical extras wired directly to the battery and some tapped into the feedback wire into the regulator. My heated jacket for example is wired to battery and the battery voltage naturally drops when I turn it on, but my heated grip are wired to the feedback wire and the battery voltage will rise when I turn them on.
The downside of doing this is you might pull to much current through the circuit or put to much strain on the regulator so its best no to go too mad., I have been running like this for a couple of years now and havent suffered any blown bulbs or any noticable problems.
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kaw12
Expert Class
Posts: 172
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posted November 09, 2008 06:16 AM
i got a friend who runs the 1427 and he has all kinds of stuff on his like backup camera, gps, heated grips, air shifter, tire gauge monitor, voltage backup monitor, kill box, radar detector, bonny box, pc3, dynojet a/f ratio =setup, and some other little things, but he's running an oddysey battery on his bike and his voltage monitor at idle with everything on still reads at 13.8-14.1volts kz...... the only thing he doesnt have is the nitrous!!!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted November 09, 2008 09:36 AM
KZ, just disconnect yr headlights when you race 
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted November 09, 2008 01:24 PM
how much power do they draw? Im adding a dyna arc 2 2step this winter, and I forgot to mention that it has a dyna shiftminder w/light.
sometimes we race friday nights under lights, but its really nice to have headlights. i could limit myself to NA runs 95% of the time at night tho. I just want to be able to forget about current draw and know my system will support everything i throw at it. maybe my stock system is damaged and ill be fine with it repaired? ill have to go thru the check list to make sure everything is ok, but the nitrous does use a lot of power. its own fuel pump and 3 solenoids...
shiggsy, how much current would you say the heated grips are drawing from the feedback wire?
thx guys!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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shiggsy
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted November 09, 2008 02:16 PM
Edited By: shiggsy on 9 Nov 2008 22:16
Think maximum draw is 4amps but I hardly ever have them above half way.
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lgm118icbm
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted November 10, 2008 07:59 AM
HID's draw less current than the stock headlights. I converted mine over before I added all my heated stuff to avoid running into problems.
____________
Costa Mesa, Ca
03 ZX-12R
03 Z-1000SC
04 ZX-6R
98 Concours
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
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posted November 12, 2008 12:51 AM
what i don't understand is why someone would charge $165 to rewind a stator to give you more voltage..
amperage is what you're after .
(mind you, i'm an electrical engineer)
thin is, when you stress a current-generating device, you put a physical load on it thru the magnetic field involved in the voltage induction process.
if your'e running a generator at 95% duty cycle, it'll use FAR more gas than running it at 35%
just as well, lets say the max current available from it is 100A and you're drawing 95 A thru a continuous load (determined to be a load running in excess of 3+ hours, but n/m that here.. lol) now.. that bad boy is seriuosly stressed, as you're approaching the max cutrrent it can make.. not to mention the lag in voltage for various reason i'll skip..
now, replace that 100A generator with a 200A machine. voltage comes back up, the current is MORE than available, and the physical load is diminished. it's still there, but it's minumal.
mind you, we're dealing with a stator on a bike.. increasing the wire size by a few gauges will not affect any rotating assembly. the magnet is whats spinning.. otherwise it (the coils)would've been named a rotor.
now, i can see where a higher voltage can give you a little more power in a few ways, but 1.5 volts isn't going to amount to much. current and voltage are inversly proportional, thus the reasion high tension distribution lines with a million (literally) phase-to-phase volts only has about 30 A flowing. the current ,when transformed to a lower voltage, skyrockets.
another thing is like running a dual voltage motor (like a 240/480 motor) at one voltage or the other.. thing is, the windings are build to take that voltage.
a 12V system is exactly that.
got me thinking tho on a solution..
i'd suggest not having it rewound for voltage, but bumping up 2 gauges if possible on the windings.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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KZScott
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posted November 12, 2008 10:27 AM
that is excellent information! how much more current do you think would be available from going up 1 or 2 gauges on the windings?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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flite leader
Zone Head
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posted November 12, 2008 11:11 AM
Edited By: flite leader on 12 Nov 2008 19:12
bigger is NOT always better
more is NOT always better
most bikes have at least 30-40 more electric power than they really need
save an argument ..... do the math
where its critical is the speed of the alternator ! !
Lots of idling or slow riding will NOT provide suitable or essential factors for proper
electrical levels to be maintained
design of each individual circuit will
add up all of you AMP requirements & you will probably see you dont exceed
the MAX requirement of your alternator
check into being able to increase the speed of the alternator.............ALTHO
that will mean at Speed it will be turning Faster than necessary
a decided disadvantage
now here is where i know i wont be listened to
simply because someone will say they have done it .....no problem
many electronic devices have a MAXIMUM VOLTAGE they can run & live with
without serious damage or the overall life being seriously shortened
that Excess Voltage can FRY THE UNIT !!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!
years ago a company in the northeast discovered their battery was rated at 16 volts
put out a little more than 14 volts............... was NOT in far excess of the MAX Voltage
[which at that time was 15volts].......... Provided a clear and quantifiable performance
increase/advantage in all chevrolets [which had the worst OEM ignition in the industry]
that scenario is usually NOT evident in japanese equiptment
it is in some old british or italian motorized vehicles..............................again
Not usually in Japanese vehicles
my point is while actually trying to solve an apparent problem,
gain an advantage or performanbce increase
you could actually cause yourself Big Expen$ive problems
to NO gain
spendin in an attempt + spending to repair
all the same
good luck
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted November 12, 2008 11:27 AM
quote:
what i don't understand is why someone would charge $165 to rewind a stator to give you more voltage..
amperage is what you're after .
(mind you, i'm an electrical engineer)
thin is, when you stress a current-generating device, you put a physical load on it thru the magnetic field involved in the voltage induction process.
if your'e running a generator at 95% duty cycle, it'll use FAR more gas than running it at 35%
just as well, lets say the max current available from it is 100A and you're drawing 95 A thru a continuous load (determined to be a load running in excess of 3+ hours, but n/m that here.. lol) now.. that bad boy is seriuosly stressed, as you're approaching the max cutrrent it can make.. not to mention the lag in voltage for various reason i'll skip..
now, replace that 100A generator with a 200A machine. voltage comes back up, the current is MORE than available, and the physical load is diminished. it's still there, but it's minumal.
mind you, we're dealing with a stator on a bike.. increasing the wire size by a few gauges will not affect any rotating assembly. the magnet is whats spinning.. otherwise it (the coils)would've been named a rotor.
now, i can see where a higher voltage can give you a little more power in a few ways, but 1.5 volts isn't going to amount to much. current and voltage are inversly proportional, thus the reasion high tension distribution lines with a million (literally) phase-to-phase volts only has about 30 A flowing. the current ,when transformed to a lower voltage, skyrockets.
another thing is like running a dual voltage motor (like a 240/480 motor) at one voltage or the other.. thing is, the windings are build to take that voltage.
a 12V system is exactly that.
got me thinking tho on a solution..
i'd suggest not having it rewound for voltage, but bumping up 2 gauges if possible on the windings.
some of what you are saying is not true
1st -you cant compare DC voltage to AC when you talk about hi voltage transmission lines
has nothing to do with DC automotive sytems
2nd- there are cetain rules that never change mmany compensate for
when you crank your bike..... stage..... run it doen the strip
that battery is in deficit ! no way has the charging system had ANY chance to
replace the amount already used in only 2 or 3 minutes
smarrt racers will come back & charge between runs..........
even that wont put a full charge on the battery or replace whats already been used
no less 1,5 volts does make a difference......... a HUGE difference
if the ratio on the coil sticks are 10 to 1[by example]
10 volts =10000 volts
12 volts =12000
14volts = 14000
theres the difference that is made......plug in your #'s
that difference can be caused by a battery in deficit
that charged would be on the money
improper voltage as a result of the battery need to be replaced
one other rule that never goes away
do what you will with the batt or stator
A- on a DC automotive system the battery will result in the level of the charging system
a --------- volt battery[u fill in the blank] will equal out to the charging & regulator
of the system
if your system only puts out 11.5....... thats what you got
if it puts out 13.8...............thats what you got
good luck
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted November 12, 2008 12:01 PM
hmm too much for my mind. ill follow Tims chart to see if I can find a problem, and go from there
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted November 12, 2008 12:21 PM
Edited By: flite leader on 12 Nov 2008 20:26
working with Dc voltage.........one has to isolate
if you notice a few said that their voltage at the battery was 13.9 at idle........thats the alternator + regulator voltage NOT battery voltage
measuring across the battery everythin off or one cable disconnected
is true batt voltage
under load voltage & current should Not be confused
true load + current will bring voltage down, yet you are running 1/2 addl devices than stock
you dont know if its one of those or all of them bringing your system down
the only way you can tell is by isolating them 1 at a time
no les you have to be ceratin you dont have a loose ground on any device
& no strray wires bleeding voltage to ground
most contemporay electronic devices Dont draw huge amounts of current
an amp meter must be used in-line with the device
simply disconnect the positive lead...............insert amp meter
read current draw........write that number down for each device youve added
the measure between positive cable & pos post of battery
as i mentioned b4 it will probably NOT exceed your alternator rating
going to a bigger stator or alternator will cost you HP
not what you are looking to do
some bikes have 3, 4, 500 Watt ratings
somme bmw touring models almost approch 900 Watts
no one need that much on a race bike. in fact some used to reduce the size
to gain HP dirrectly from the fact the stock street size was at least 2x
& to benefit from less inertia on the spin up acceleration
i doubt you have a stator or batt problem
check you add-on device wiring
after years of experience what we have found is its at the point of the last human intervention you will find your headache
good luck
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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whitehendrix
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posted November 13, 2008 10:52 PM
Edited By: whitehendrix on 14 Nov 2008 06:59
very true, flite.. you bring fine examples, BUT, the main reason i bring up AC is that the stator produces the same current type thats buzzing overhead right now.
they're would in a 3 phase "wye" configureation, similar to the transformer thats powering your local wal-mart.
just a significantly lower voltage.. there, we're talking 13.8KV.. here, we're talkin a max of 60V. if that.
the reason i bring up the 3ph arrangement is because the ripple produced by rectification of a phase-tied source is what aids in charging a battery. a bettery will charge faster when at least 5mV of ripple are present than if it was hooked up to another battery. single phase would be too much, and would drop to 0 V upon phase reversal, and even a 2 phase winding would only offer a slightly better ripple frequency at a fixed rpm, but it still would be noisy.
in relation to the speed Vs current, you're right ..
what we have with this stator is a permanent magnet sychronous generator.. and with this, there will only be a current rise proportional to rotational speed to a certain extent. upon reaching the threshold value, no more current or voltage will be induced no matter how fast you spin it or what the flux cut rate is, regardless of medium (air) gap or flux orientation or density. yes, idleing at the tree or in the pits will not produce alot of current, but once the motor comes off idle even to 2000 rpms ,voltage production will drastically increase. it should be more than enough to charge the battery (assuming about a 12 A/hr battery?) , plus the bounceback time on the battery itself. it's main purpose is to provide extra current for starting.. technically, one could use a 2 farad capacitor or something along those lines and run the bike solely on the stator's output.
theres an insurmountable number of variables to an effiecient generator, and it'd almost be a waste to even construct a partial list of those, including eddy current, lamination orientation and materal, copper type, ect.. not to mention the excitation field and IT's variable in flux density and orientation, rotational speed or the medium gap.
now, i do stand corrected a bit on the spark plug coil thing, but then again, look at the multiplicity factor here.
we've got a transformer (the coil pack) with a 1000:1 ratio. therefore, 1 volt(Wp) =1000Volts (Ws)
if we had only a 10:1 ratio, the primary winding voltage would have a vastly lesser effect on the secondary output. so, yes sir.. theres a huge difference when 1 volt equals 1000, but honestly, i wasn't thinking about that.. lol
so, in theory here, you're looking at more current, since you're absolutely right on maximun voltage.. all 12V mobile electrical systems are rated to a safe max voltage of about 15 as an overshoot.. 14.4 is really the upper limit, and 12.86 is the target.
yes, having a higher output on the stator voltage-wise might influence the power output, but going back to A Vs. V when we're talkin inversely proportial values, the higher the voltage you've got, the lesser the current (available) will be.
technically, you'd also have to modify the reg/rectifier unit as well, and boost it's current rating thru forced cooling, a spray of nitrous maybe, a better heatsink or by scraping the potting out and piggybacking the regulator transistor with another one.
KZ.. i haven't crunched any numbers as of yet as far as what you could actually expect with bumping gauge sizes up and what that'll produce amperage-wise, but i'm sure eventually (since i'm curious now) that i'll get bored and do some math and whatnot and figure it out..
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
|
KZScott
Needs a life
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Posts: 7235
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posted November 13, 2008 11:27 PM
my limited input
the guys that were offering the high output stator i originally mentioned put vents by the RR to create airflow over it to keep it cooler
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
Seth ZX12r UK
Expert Class
Posts: 238
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posted November 13, 2008 11:55 PM
kz have a look here
http://www.debben.co.uk/acatalog/ZX12R.html
High Output Generator, HOGZX12
This High Output Generator is a direct replacement for the stock item, provides 30% more power than the stock item, pre-installed grommet and OEM Japanese connectors for quick and easy fitting. Brand New eliminating the need for customers to send in the old ones and come with a one year's guarantee
Price: £95.00 (Excluding: VAT at 17.5%)
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KZScott
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Posts: 7235
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posted November 14, 2008 11:19 AM
thx for the link Seth
hmmm 30% more power... I wonder if thats volts, amps, both?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted November 14, 2008 11:27 AM
on most race engines many only run as much as needed...........seldom more
the stator alternator on a 12 or 14 is rated to provide somewhere between 400 -500
watts depending on the spped of the alternator & the duration of charge
by example if you were to crank & ride it wouls be some miles down the road b4
thte system would stop charging to batt back to a float !!! most of the time when
measured its the system voltage NOT the Batt voltage being measured
when riding down the hiway the system maintains a float......... pull over ... stop
wait an hour [there is a valid explanation for this] DISCONNECT the batt then measure
there is your float or correct batt voltage. connect it back up turn everything on ! ! !
crank the bike back up.........let run for a few mins.......say 4-5k rpm insuring a full
regarge from sytem to batt. cut bike off disconnect batt & measure again
what you will see is a lower voltage. the system has NOT had enuf time to RECOUP
the previous level.
thats what happens at the drag strip ! ! ! ! !
consequently after a full day the battery gets lower & lower
its not unusual for performance to suffer
you can go will a bigger stator...... you will also give up MORE parasitic HP
another performance Disadvantage
now you could gain by eliminating ALL unecessary voltage by reducing the output of the stock system
disconnect the headlight saving at least 55watts or more
the more you eliminate the more you gain
otherwise unless you drag race with a 60 plasma big screen ......a microwave
+beer refrig & a 3000watt stereo surround sound to complement your
xbox & wi
putting a bigger stator is not going to help a drag racer
its your dime spend as you like
good luck
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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KZScott
Needs a life
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Posts: 7235
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posted November 14, 2008 01:27 PM
thank you for the break down. this has been very helpful. I just want too much, running with headlights, and not charging between rounds anymore lol. i thought the bigger battery would let me avoid charging it between rounds.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted November 14, 2008 01:45 PM
it will
but you will have a draw down .............
just the nature of the beast
you put your helmet on.....go to staging......burn out & chirp
set a satisfactory run........get a grin.........ride back to your pits
essentially all was done on the system.........the battery is in deficit
you recharge
nothing wrong by anyone or anything
a bigger stator wont help that scenario
the wait + charge b4 you do it again is an offset......Not a deficit
some have forgotten/failed to do so & sunsequently ride the pine as a result
a good hot battery + the elimination of ALL ancillary electrical draw on your system
will produce the brst results
good luck
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted November 14, 2008 03:32 PM
thanks. ill put my headlights on a switch so i just run them at night, and put it on the charger more often
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted November 14, 2008 09:40 PM
ya.. after all this, that may just be the most simple and effective option sir. .lol
oh, sorry, but just for clarification...
(not to be an ass, but just for anyone following along and learning)
"watts depending on the spped of the alternator & the duration of charge"
watts is a function of amperage and voltage.. it's notr really it's own thing, but is at the same time..
"pie".. this is ohm's law.
P=watts (P comes from "power")
E=volts (e comes from "electromotive force")
I=amps (i comes from the french word "intensique" or something like that.. lol)
R=resistance
P=I x E
I=P/E
E=P/I
E=I x R
I=E/R
R=E/I
using the "pie" formula, you can see where power is a function of both current and voltage.. when someone say a "power" increase, automatically, most people will think "well, power is wattage.."
this is true within reason.. it's all hooked together in one form or another..
even the construction of a wattmeter is proof of the correlation between V and A.
they're constructed with both an in-series meter (current) and "in-parallel" meter (voltage, then does an averaging betwen them basen on a pre calculated table and thats where your wattage is derived when displayed on any wattmeter.. DC or AC.
jsut FYI.. not tryin to fight over the logistics here.. lol
scott.. unhook your headlights buddy!!
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
|
flite leader
Zone Head
Posts: 651
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posted November 15, 2008 07:25 AM
quote:
ya.. after all this, that may just be the most simple and effective option sir. .lol
oh, sorry, but just for clarification...
(not to be an ass, but just for anyone following along and learning)
"watts depending on the spped of the alternator & the duration of charge"
watts is a function of amperage and voltage.. it's notr really it's own thing, but is at the same time..
"pie".. this is ohm's law.
P=watts (P comes from "power")
E=volts (e comes from "electromotive force")
I=amps (i comes from the french word "intensique" or something like that.. lol)
R=resistance
P=I x E
I=P/E
E=P/I
E=I x R
I=E/R
R=E/I
using the "pie" formula, you can see where power is a function of both current and voltage.. when someone say a "power" increase, automatically, most people will think "well, power is wattage.."
this is true within reason.. it's all hooked together in one form or another..
even the construction of a wattmeter is proof of the correlation between V and A.
they're constructed with both an in-series meter (current) and "in-parallel" meter (voltage, then does an averaging betwen them basen on a pre calculated table and thats where your wattage is derived when displayed on any wattmeter.. DC or AC.
jsut FYI.. not tryin to fight over the logistics here.. lol
scott.. unhook your headlights buddy!!
went to college for electronics & have decades of experience
with direct current
you arent being an ass............all good info is relevant
the exception is at certain speeds or rpms regardless of the bike or auto
there is an optimum speed for full output to arrive at full voltage + current
under load........................... the operative words being optimum........
full output............... & finally "under load"
that seldom happens at idle
it seldom happens in stop & go commuter situations
you can design for it yet if you design for commuter..................
too fast or over capacity at 180 mph
design for a deisel at 3000rpm max
way to slow for other applications
the " P, I, E" formula is great for the class room
doesnt work in the field in that "Load" can be absent
no less varies ALL the time
____________
bend your mind.....
or break your ass...!!
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted November 16, 2008 07:18 PM
very true sir.. in all aspects..
ya.. i meant not being an ass because i didn't want to make it sound like i was arguing the point or whatever.. just figured i'd elaborate and set a foundation to anyone following along..
but, if you've got an EE background, i knw for certain you understand where i'm coming from!! lol
ya.. rough examples.. not like i've hooked up the clamp meters and my tektronics and documented stator output and lag/lead characteristics or PF or any other electrical statistic, .. thus another reason i said theres an almost infinite number of vaiables as well, just as you stated just now..
i initially misread about rpm and idle, and actually edited it, as i took it completely wroung, then re-read to confirm my statement will coincide (which i pretty much always try to do) and saw i F'ed up, basically, and corrected.. ya.. idle definitely won't produce the power needed, and thinking about actually drag racing.. theres a good amount of time AT idle.. so, good call.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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