herbg26
Expert Class
Posts: 141
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posted April 19, 2008 04:04 AM
Any tips/tricks for installing pistons?
Just wanted to know if anybody had any tricks/tips for installing pistons inside the cylinder bores, without screwing up the orientation of the rings on the pistons. And doing it without using the special tools callout in the service manual.
Thanks
Herb
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VincentHill
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posted April 19, 2008 04:17 AM
With or without "Special Tools" It is a Bit--h I install the 2 center First and the Outside last!
I made bars to hold the Pistons in place! I made Piston ring clamps held with Vice Grips and did not like them!
With me now Notching the cylinder between 1&2 and 3&4 I think this will allow the job to be more like a 2 stroke where you could squeeze the Rings with your fingers as you slid the cylinders over the pistons! I also have a small Brass tool like a cross between a Pop Sicle stick and Screwdriver to Poke the rings that always try to slip out! Nice and soft metal and it has no sharp edges!
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entropy
Moderator
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posted April 19, 2008 05:55 AM
if the cases are split, put the pistons on the rods.
In literally 5 min with just a couple popsicle sticks you'll have the pistons in the cyl block.
Since my block has virtually no chamfer on the bottom of the cyls I always do mine this way.
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herbg26
Expert Class
Posts: 141
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posted April 19, 2008 06:46 AM
Thanks for the responses....I figured that was the only way
Herb
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madmike
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posted April 19, 2008 07:31 AM
Not exactly....
I have a ghetto ring compression set.... 
I have photo's somewhere??? let me look for them!
I thought I posted them before?
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VincentHill
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posted April 19, 2008 02:52 PM
quote:
Not exactly....
I have a ghetto ring compression set....
I have photo's somewhere??? let me look for them!
I thought I posted them before?
I made mine out of real Ring Compressors and used about 1 inch High from the Bottom and used 4 Vice Grips and 2 aluminum Rods taped to fit to make them hold the pistons tight! My Problem was the Notches were too small!
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madmike
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posted April 19, 2008 04:32 PM
mine was out of some steel strapping, You could use real ring compressors cut down... and I used zip ties it worked great!!! I know i have posted photo's but I can not find them...
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted April 19, 2008 05:11 PM
I grow long thumbnails just for this job. I also use a couple of old head bolts with the heads cut off as studs to help support and guide the block. ]
Got the chain, Mike. Thanks!
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VincentHill
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posted April 20, 2008 04:37 AM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 20 Apr 2008 05:39
quote:
mine was out of some steel strapping, You could use real ring compressors cut down... and I used zip ties it worked great!!! I know i have posted photo's but I can not find them...
I never thought of ZIP Ties! Good Idea and specially the ones the Police use that are about 1.2 inch wide and can cover all of the rings!
I forgot how the engine comes with BOLTS and not studs! I would think that ANYONE that takes their engine apart even once should at least get a set of APE Studs! Saves the Cases from all of that thread wear and better readings on torque of the Head
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madmike
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posted April 20, 2008 07:42 AM
glad you got it ken...
I will find those damn pictures!!!
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dougmeyer
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moderated
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posted April 21, 2008 12:43 PM
I've done this SO, SO many times. Maybe only more than Karl or Mike. Like Karl, I had special thumbnails and callouses. I always do it by hand and have it worked out pretty well although occasionally I get an SOB ring. You can make it easier by having a generous chamfer on the bottom of the cyl. I have some teflon or nylon rods that I prop the cylinder up on to get started. I do the centers first and usually rock the cylinder so I can start the rings into the bore on an angle. This is easier of course without studs, and I use a couple giude bolts like Karl, but I still do it this way even with the studs) Contrary to popular lore (and even some manuals) I do not pay much attention to the location of the ring gaps other than the fact that I put them where I can see 'em and push them in with my thumb nail or a small pick. (Do you really think they stay were they are? The rings rotate....)
Everybody's got their favorite lube of course, and mine is two stroke oil. It burns easily goes away fast to promote break in. I put a VERY light coat on the cyl. I smear it in with my finger and then wipe it out with a white paper towel. If I see grey stains on the towel I re-wash the bores until it is clean except for the oil. I also wipe a little on the skirts and rings with my finger.
Doug
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted April 21, 2008 06:05 PM
An extra hand or two helps, so get a buddy.
Make sure those pistons aren't backwards, I have seen a few motors that way lately. Maybe
it does not matter too much if you have real big valve pockets and your not running big cams.
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dougmeyer
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posted April 21, 2008 07:11 PM
Oh you want him to have HELP? That's not fair. I suppose you want it to be less than 95F in the shop and be before midnight with at least a couple of days before you run as well. Slacker......
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NOX
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posted April 21, 2008 07:23 PM
I prefer to start my motors just as the sunlight is coming up.......
My neighbors love me........
Thats what they get for being Killer Buzz energy drink reps.........
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MadMike
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posted April 21, 2008 09:01 PM
quote:
Oh you want him to have HELP? That's not fair. I suppose you want it to be less than 95F in the shop and be before midnight with at least a couple of days before you run as well. Slacker......
LMAO... and he probably even wants lights so he can see...
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entropy
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posted April 22, 2008 02:29 AM
Doug,
you mean Ken w/the talented fingers, not me.
I have put the cyl block down on the pistons a buncha times and hated it every time, even with a big chamfer and 4 OEM ring compressors.
With the motor on the bench, head & block off, it literally takes 15min to split the cases.
Takes a leisurely hour or so to clean the mating surfaces of the cases, Yama-goop-em + pop the pistons in the block +tq everything back together.
side benefit = inspect all bearings & trans.
I now split the cases every time to avoid fukkin around trying to get the rings in the micro-chamfered cyl block i am using.
I am NOT talented like you guys, gotta do it the bullet-proof way
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herbg26
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posted April 22, 2008 02:43 AM
Thanks for the tips guys.....
Herb
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blueshark
Novice Class
Posts: 99
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posted April 22, 2008 05:00 AM
I've used raidiator hose clamps, once the rings are in the hole the hose clamp drops down off the piston. Disclaimer: remove hose clamp from rod before finishing build and starting engine!
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NOX
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posted April 22, 2008 05:01 AM
I would much rather do it Karls way for sure.........
I had my 12 year old daughter to help me........ put the jugs on......, I already had the rods torqued, and did not want to take them off, or I would have gladly popped the cases apart to do it again..........
My only drawback on that..........., I wish the top half of the case, had a boss to mount on my K&L engine stand, so it would be easier. If none of you have invested in one, it is a true life saver........, engine can be rotated 360 degrees with no probs........., you just need someone to help get it in the air, getttig it down can be done by yourself, if you know what you are doing..........
worst part is still lapping valves.........
I felt like Danielson spinning that damn wooden handle, but she runs like a mad animal for all stock parts!!!!!
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42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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VincentHill
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posted April 22, 2008 07:42 AM
All of this is another reason I am putting the Notches in the Cylinders! OH How easy it is to put in 2 Stroke Rings and the fact that once that is done you Bolt the head on and YOU ARE DONE! On a 4 stroke you are only starting!!
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slug
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posted April 26, 2008 06:33 PM
One of the members of the yzf forum found another easy way: get a smooth-plastic spray-paint can lid, slice the end off, trim it to size, and a few zip ties. The plastic is much smoother to slide on than aluminum or steel strapping, especially with a generous application of oil. It is also thick enough it won't try to squeeze into the bore with the piston like aluminum sheet will. (i've ruined a few oil control rings that way  )
he put 4 of these on, lined pistons up, set jugs on, lock crankshaft position, and firm push the whole set goes on. clip zip-ties, remove plastic pieces (as an added bonus they shouldn't scratch up cylinder base gaskets) and push the rest of the way down.
10 minutes to get it set properly, and about a minute to get everything on and the extra pieces removed.
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