Garage19
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted January 07, 2008 02:57 PM
Building a turbo ZX12 motor??
Hi,
I have a customer who wants me to turbo his ZX12r.
I am happy with the fabrication side of things but wanted to run my engine plans past you guys who have more experience of the ZX12 motor.
I plan on stripping the top end off and fitting a cometic gaskets base gasket/shim that I am having them make up. It has a 40 thou aluminium layer sandwiched by two stainless gaskets with crush areas for sealing. This will give a total crushed thickness of 60 thou and should drop the static CR from 12.2 to 9.95:1
Should I bother with APE studs when putting it back together? Has anyone ever experienced headgasket failure after using the stock studs on a tuned engine?
What are the APE cam wheels like? I i understand right, they have to be pressed on in place of the stock ones?? How easy do the stock ones come off?
The engine will b controlled by a standalone ecu but just out of interest what have other people used on turbo ZX12s? If there are any turbo ones that is??
Any useful input would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks,
Doug.
  
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted January 07, 2008 03:20 PM
how many hp is he shooting for? street bike? drag bike? dyno queen? putting that thick of a spacer in is really going to mess up the quench height on stock pistons isnt it?(cause detonation?) and then you are still using cast (weak) pistons. just go with low compression forged JE turbo pistons (stock bore). muzzy or ape adjustabe cam sprockets are pressed on. what ecu are you using? motech(sp?) or muzzy ems? megasquirt? i have been told a cheap way to get a power commander to work with boost is to hook up the TPS wire going to the power commander to a map sensor. i dont think this would be the most ideal setup though
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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garage19
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted January 08, 2008 06:20 AM
It is a street bike and is not planning on running much boost.
Low comp forged pistons over here (UK) would cost the equivalent of $1000 so we are going to build it up with the thicker base gasket and if he likes it and wants more power in the future he can go for a stronger engine build at a later date.
The ECU will be a VEMS unit which has an in-built wideband controller and also two EGT inputs. I will be using the standard crank and cam triggers and using the ECU to control both ignition and fuel making the stock ecu redundant. Hopefully i can run an alpha-n / speed density blend stratagy that will allow me to use the alpha-n at lower rpms to get better control at light throttle openings.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted January 08, 2008 09:53 AM
If its for the street and you'll be running low boost, as well as not changing the pistons (which sure look like cast or very very very poor forge) you may want to reconsider dropping the CR. If you drop the CR that much It'll feel like a turd on the street. Maybe check out SuzukiHayabusa.org Turbo section. They have some very good info especially for street
turbos. Also If you can get a hold of Bear racing, they should be able to tell you exactly
what needs to get done for a 12.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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garage19
Parking Attendant
Posts: 3
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posted January 08, 2008 10:21 AM
I didn't think 10:1 was that low really??
Who are bear racing?
Thanks for the link, i'll have a read over there.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted January 08, 2008 03:10 PM
Vincent Hill can give you contact info for Pierre (Bear Racing) (the makers of the one and only Bear stacks)
JE turbo pistons are 9.8:1 ($628.96)
MTC turbo pistons are 11:1 ($?)
think about it this way, you would probly be fine running about 250 hp (7-8 psi?) on the stock pistons if its setup right, but if it melts a piston, and chunks of it goes out the exhaust, you need to buy a new turbo too, not just pistons.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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keith
Expert Class
Posts: 155
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posted January 10, 2008 10:19 AM
There's a few fast turbo 12's here in the UK. Andy Head ran 246 mph on a flyer and Steve Venables/ Graham Baulchin have both run mid sevens on the strip on the same bike. These bikes have fully built motors with Motecs. I don't think stock pistons are a good idea on a 12R turbo. Keith
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted January 10, 2008 02:55 PM
5-6 pounds max and with good fuel control at that.
____________
It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted January 11, 2008 02:41 PM
Why spend all that money in a turbo kit for the ZX-12R for a low-boost set-up?
With stock pistons.... you're very limited on the amount of RELIABLE power you can make, along with the duration in which that power can be used.
Sure, a 250+hp set-up will hold up on a dyno for a quick 4th gear pull..... but it will not fair the same on the highway when your customer decides to explore 6th gear.
If it were MY customer, I'd put it quite simple....
"Go all out, or don't go turbo at all"
If a mild set-up is what he's after, you may want to suggest a nitrous set-up. He can retain all the reliability of the stock engine on the street, and when he decides to get a little ambitious, he can spray a safe 40 shot.
With a little headwork, full exhaust system, 40 shot, and proper tuning.... he can have a RELIABLE 215-220rwhp ZX-12R for 1/2 the cost and 1/10th the headache of a Turbo 12R.
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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