mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted November 23, 2007 11:41 PM
 Edited By: mrsantafe on 23 Nov 2007 23:41
how much hp can stock injectors handle?
I was wondering how much hp can the stock injectors handle? I'm running a dry kit which i might choose to lean on heavy with the nos and don't want to max out the duty cycle.
02 zx12
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
  
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 24, 2007 06:22 AM
Are you running a Muzzy Pump?
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted November 24, 2007 08:17 AM
Nope
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted November 24, 2007 10:12 AM
My 00s show 80% duty cycle max w/a 40 shot and a muzzy pump.
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted November 27, 2007 03:36 PM
They were originally spec'ed for 200hp max.
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted November 28, 2007 06:47 AM
quote:
They were originally spec'ed for 200hp max.
with Ram Air.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted November 28, 2007 07:05 PM
Hey Ship how much does your bike make off the bottle? So it looks like I would not have enough injector for 80 hp dry with a bike that makes near 200 hp na. corrected 1.21 5300 ft
It makes me wonder how some people such as Race4it could get away with making 290 hp on the dyno with a similiar setup as my own. Hmmmmmmmmmmm
My plan is to use some type of spray bar system that would give even distribution to each cylinder. Also my bike at a mile high location is only putting down and approximate 170 ish hp to the rear wheel.
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted November 30, 2007 01:18 PM
Big fuel pump increases that, and it is somewhat time sensitive. At very high duty cycles (over 80) the injectors will overheat and lose efficiency.
(That is flow for 200 max continuous)
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted November 30, 2007 05:10 PM
Edited By: shiphteey on 30 Nov 2007 17:16
Hey Ship how much does your bike make off the bottle?
----I've seen as low as 169 and as high as 175. Depends. I always have it mapped rich with -3 timing in it in case I run nitrous. 13:1 a/f ratio on spray, god knows how rich off, but rich enough on the dyno to hurt people's eyes!
So it looks like I would not have enough injector for 80 hp dry with a bike that makes near 200 hp na. corrected 1.21 5300 ft
----I would definately NOT reccommend spraying that much, but not just because of the injectors. Bored out motors have less meat between the cylinders, can't dissapate the heat as well as stock bore. Stroked motors just don't seem to last for a long time on BIG spray, ask around.
It makes me wonder how some people such as Race4it could get away with making 290 hp on the dyno with a similiar setup as my own. Hmmmmmmmmmmm
----Could be a number of things, it would probably be best to get in contact w/him personally (PM), but you just touched up on something. You said on the dyno. Was that 1 gear? If so, that is significantly different than running an entire 1/4 mile, let alone the mile like Bergie, NOS1290 and myself as well others have run. Seems to be that running a larger motor and a large amount of nitrous simply do NOT mix. If you want BIG HP, stock displacement, forged pistons and a big shot of nitrous. If you want good real world power, a bigger motor and if you're feeling frisky a small shot. But a BIG shot and a BIG motor ALWAYS go BANG sooner or later. Its happened too many times. I feel safe spraying a 60 shot on the dyno for 1 gear. But its been 2 years and I still have yet to step up to it. I may for the 1/4, but even then, as DM has mentioned, you are on that outer edge. If you're serious about it seems to me you KNOW you need to LOG your a/f throughout your 80 shot run, however long it may be WITH a bigger fuel pump and bigger injectors ;-)
My plan is to use some type of spray bar system that would give even distribution to each cylinder. Also my bike at a mile high location is only putting down and approximate 170 ish hp to the rear wheel.
----I feel ya on the loss of HP at high elevation. My 12 felt like a slug on motor at Bonneville, especially with the tall gearing. What you need to do is KNOW your a/f ratio throughout your run, not just for 1 gear on a dyno on ----day. If it were me, I would do no more than a 40 shot on a built motor provided you even had the ways of delivering the fuel properly and safely. Instead of that extra 40 hp, maybe try some lightweight trickery and aero mods? I know my 12 weighs 460 w/a lil fuel and a bottle...maybe you could look into some personal weight reduction? I say that w/all due respect of course as I don't know your weight. But weight matters. If I had a stock weight zx12, I'd be looking at almost 100 more lbs. Factor in I also weigh 120 give or take.....that 150 lb weight difference against the average joe on a stock weight zx12....may translate into about a 20 hp advantage...food for thought.
A.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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turbobike
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted November 30, 2007 09:51 PM
Well we've worked hard at removing weight without destroying it's looks. MrSantaFe is still doing a few more things to lighten the bike. Once we do a couple more things, his bike will be at around 490lbs with full tank of petrol on the scale we use at a local truck stop. Seems strange how some of the guys here are down to mid 400lbs w/o lighter wheels and certain engine weight removal that MrSantaFe has currently. How? Different calibrated scales?
As for him losing weight, well he might lose another 5lbs which would put him at 190lbs. Still in the TFA class once suited up. But that's better than the 215lbs unsuited at the beginning of the year.
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RACE WHAT YOU BRUNG AND HOPE YOU BRUNG ENUFF
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted November 30, 2007 10:30 PM
Edited By: mrsantafe on 30 Nov 2007 22:32
Thanks Shiphteey for the very detailed replies as they make alot of sense. I've have now run a best of 9.87@145.6 (all motor no lockup. street tire )mph in alb. nm with air density of at least 6500 ft. I have managed to cut down some body weight to around 195 lb's. Turbobike is correct as i might be able to trim 5 more pounds too much weight lifting?
With a 40 shot(actually around 50 hp on the dyno. I've run a best of 9.78@155.13 (1.71 60 ft)mph at 3500 ft altitude. However, i would have done alot better but the clutch spun up. A better 60 ft should have netted a 9.5.
I'm still looking into the spray bar system for better nos distribution(safety) and have pretty much imitated the mods you have Shiphteey. I borrowed your ideas of the cut tank, fiberglass front end,and drag seat not to mention the cheesed subframe from Wolf racing.. I'm still wondering about the tail piece you have Ship as whether its worth the money to save how many pounds?
Doug i been posting alot of what if's as far as injector size and fuel pump questions because i had planned on running and 80 shot and i wanted to make sure i have enough fuel system to get the job done. My plan was to run 160 mph in the qtr a couple of times and then turn down the juice for reliability purposes. So after so many what if's it appears i could probably get away with an 80 shot dry as long as i have a big enough injector(what would be the right size injector?), correct fuel, custom map and alot of praying. I was hoping you would chime in say NOOOOOOOOOO or Yes because if you do this then that........etc etc.
Still, im very appreciative of everyones input because i simply don't know and want to learn.
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted December 01, 2007 05:02 PM
Thanks Shiphteey for the very detailed replies as they make alot of sense. I've have now run a best of 9.87@145.6 (all motor no lockup. street tire )mph in alb. nm with air density of at least 6500 ft. I have managed to cut down some body weight to around 195 lb's. Turbobike is correct as i might be able to trim 5 more pounds too much weight lifting?
----I trap 148 on pump gas on my bike on motor, same if I jump on Warp12's, so you're doing fine.
With a 40 shot(actually around 50 hp on the dyno. I've run a best of 9.78@155.13 (1.71 60 ft)mph at 3500 ft altitude. However, i would have done alot better but the clutch spun up. A better 60 ft should have netted a 9.5.
----Sounds like good mph. My mph is the same with the 40 shot I run, but I think my 40 shot is really more like a 30-something.
I'm still looking into the spray bar system for better nos distribution(safety) and have pretty much imitated the mods you have Shiphteey. I borrowed your ideas of the cut tank, fiberglass front end,and drag seat not to mention the cheesed subframe from Wolf racing.. I'm still wondering about the tail piece you have Ship as whether its worth the money to save how many pounds?
----As you know the fiberglass front end saves 7 lbs. Tank seemed to save 4 lbs. Tail section saved 3 lbs (mainly due to not needing the rear seat. Not really worth it IMO but my tail section is in pieces right now so it was "worth" getting for me. More space for my 2.5 lb bottle, 9 oz air shifter, ecu, power commander, nitrous solenoid, bottle heater, bottle clamp, gauge.
Doug i been posting alot of what if's as far as injector size and fuel pump questions because i had planned on running and 80 shot and i wanted to make sure i have enough fuel system to get the job done. My plan was to run 160 mph in the qtr a couple of times and then turn down the juice for reliability purposes. So after so many what if's it appears i could probably get away with an 80 shot dry as long as i have a big enough injector(what would be the right size injector?), correct fuel, custom map and alot of praying. I was hoping you would chime in say NOOOOOOOOOO or Yes because if you do this then that........etc etc.
Still, im very appreciative of everyones input because i simply don't know and want to learn.
----I have heard Skinart (Chad on the zx12.org) ran a 90 shot a couple times "on the way to the grocery store", lol. I just don't think its a good idea and the clutch probably won't hold it either. RC injectors would probably be a good idea....I think the next step is 370, 440 or 550 but I'm not really sure if those numbers are correct, check their site or give em a ring.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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