ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted October 30, 2007 07:47 AM
Actually its probably Denso's stuff. If I was kawasaki and I was shopping around for an ECU manufacturer I would obviously pick one that offered a complete development package and engineering support over one that didn't
Also given that I've seen the Busa code and about half of it is line for line the same as the zx12 code the firmware for the ECU is obviously provided by Denso. And if Denso is providing the firmware it makes sense they also provide the original tuning setup software.
For all we know Kawi may have just dropped off an engine at Denso and they did all the maps for them.
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted October 30, 2007 08:59 AM
Does anyone hard data such as, on so and so bikes said rider with x amount of modifications ran 10.0@140. Then, with the ecu mod ran 9.8@142?
Or doing a roll on in 4th gear on a dynojet took 3.5 sec to reach redline. After the ecu mod it took 3.2 seconds to reach redline.
Perhaps the average horsepower and torque increased accross the entire powerband due to the ecu mods etc.
At the maxton mile i gained x amount of mph because of the ecu mod.
I can definately see the potential in Ridge racers ecu mods, i've followed these threads for along time and it makes my head hurt.
thanks
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted October 30, 2007 10:49 AM
At this point the only thing that is documented is that you can up the RPM limit.
Hopefully that will change over the winter as more and more people start using the modified ECUs. Entropy will be getting his modified ECU this week and I understand he plans to get the equipment needed to reprogram it. As far as I know he is only the second person to have a modified ECU. I look forward to hearing what he finds.
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted October 30, 2007 07:29 PM
Thanks for the reply, im looking forward to seeing the good things that come from this.
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted October 30, 2007 07:31 PM
RR what would it take for me to get one like what supra has? (extended ecu and the same mapping in the low gears) i really want to do some testing next season with the extra power in the lower gears at the drag strip vs stock ecu. and you say i can switch back and forth with the flip of a switch?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted October 31, 2007 07:32 AM
quote:
RR what would it take for me to get one like what supra has? (extended ecu and the same mapping in the low gears)...
Buy or borrow a dremel tool with a cutting wheel and wire brush wheel.
Carefully cut away the hard outer shell of your ecu using the cutting wheel then use the wire brush wheel to remove the urethane epoxy. (I can give you the dimensions and where to cut)
Buy a 8 pin header and parts to make an adapter cable (I can give you the parts list)
Solder the header to ECU and make the cable, you'll need a special crimp tool
Buy or borrow a BDM port adapter from P&E micro ($199) and get a copy of the Prog16z software ($179)
Build or buy a regulated 12V supply (+/- 3%)
Download a copy of the enginuity map editing freeware.
Hook it all up (I can tell you how)
Download your map
covert it from .s19 to binary
edit your map
covert if back to .s19 from binary
Flash in the new map.
TA DAAA!
OR
I could do it for you for a reasonable fee. Question is what is reasonable?
So lets have the 'market' decide. What do the rest of you guys think I should charge for notching an ecu and a onetime map flash?
quote:
... i really want to do some testing next season with the extra power in the lower gears at the drag strip vs stock ecu. and you say i can switch back and forth with the flip of a switch?
Yes there are duplicate ignition and fuel maps that are switch selectable. The way I believe it works is there is a wire harness wire that when open selects one set of maps and when shorted to ground selects a different set of maps. I haven't tried it out on the bench yet and the only question is do you just turn off the key, flip the switch and then turn the bike back on or do you have to remove all power from the ecu by unplugging it and then flip the switch. I was going to play with that this weekend and should know for sure soon.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted October 31, 2007 09:07 AM
I think that $250 is VERY reasonable for simply extending the rev limiter to 12500.
The 2 or 3 guys that are changing the clock speeds are charging $220-250-ish, and then additionally you need to get yr PC3r fuel map modified to accomodate the clock speed difference
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This moderator uses moderation in moderation
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted October 31, 2007 09:08 AM
Well I would be MUCH more comfortable letting an EXPERT like yourself do this. While I could probably do it, (with your help) it would probly be easier for you to just do it, than walk me thru it. with me paying you of course. we are looking at roughly $400 for me to just buy the parts to do it, and i might f*ck my ecu if i do something unknowingly wrong...
how long does this process take you? that plus paying off the parts you bought to do it, would determine what a reasonable fee would be?
I can have the crystal mod done to mine to extend the ecu for $250, but thats not nearly as good as what you can do....
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted October 31, 2007 09:10 AM
haha Karl beat me to it 
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted October 31, 2007 01:35 PM
quote:
haha Karl beat me to it
1 min apart and we quote the same number! 
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted October 31, 2007 05:44 PM
quote:
quote:
haha Karl beat me to it
1 min apart and we quote the same number!
i had just looked it up on brocks site :P lol
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 02, 2007 07:03 PM
KZscott:
I got the A/B map feature tested and it works so if you want your ECU modified with stock / non stock maps I could do that now.
As for price it takes me about 3 hours to notch it, solder in a plug, make an adapter cable, program it etc. My lowest rate for my day job is $32 / hour and parts are about $2-3 so my cost works out to about $100. Add in return shipping and a little profit to offset past and future research and development I think $150 is a good price. Its cheaper than the crystal mod and as you said you get more your buck.
BTW, the 2001 A2 does not have the 1st gear only map but it does have a different ignition map than the B1/2 so you could try putting a B1 map in your A2 +5 degrees like supra's
Also of course I can remove the speed restriction and extend the RPM limit. Is your ECU already extended with the crystal mod? The RPM limit is the same for both A/B maps.
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted November 02, 2007 08:48 PM
RR,
If the ECU is already extended with the crystal mod, can you still do your thing? BTW, I think $150 is a fair price. Are U across the pond from me? I live in Everett.
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted November 03, 2007 04:40 AM
 Edited By: KZScott on 3 Nov 2007 05:42
quote:
KZscott:
I got the A/B map feature tested and it works so if you want your ECU modified with stock / non stock maps I could do that now.
As for price it takes me about 3 hours to notch it, solder in a plug, make an adapter cable, program it etc. My lowest rate for my day job is $32 / hour and parts are about $2-3 so my cost works out to about $100. Add in return shipping and a little profit to offset past and future research and development I think $150 is a good price. Its cheaper than the crystal mod and as you said you get more your buck.
BTW, the 2001 A2 does not have the 1st gear only map but it does have a different ignition map than the B1/2 so you could try putting a B1 map in your A2 +5 degrees like supra's
Also of course I can remove the speed restriction and extend the RPM limit. Is your ECU already extended with the crystal mod? The RPM limit is the same for both A/B maps.
150 sounds like a great deal
i have a completely stock 01 A2 ecu at the moment, no crystal mod. (but i did just buy a bonniville box i guess i wouldnt need any more)
so im a bit unsure on what you are saying about the first gear only map. heres what i understand:
my ecu has different maps in the lower gears to limit power, and you can put in a map (from another version of ecu) to basically make it the same power output in every gear correct? and with the "a/b map feature" i could shut off my bike, and flip a switch to go from stock to modified or vice versa. (great for doing testing at the track, or just slightly "taming" the bike a bit for the street again)
thx!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 03, 2007 05:47 AM
quote:
RR,
If the ECU is already extended with the crystal mod, can you still do your thing? BTW, I think $150 is a fair price. Are U across the pond from me? I live in Everett.
It will still work with an extended ECU its just you have to take that extra 5% into account when setting the rev limit, etc. and that you can't share maps with people who have unmodified ECUs
And yes I live in Port Angeles. If you've ever been to Hurricane Ridge you've driven right by my house.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 03, 2007 06:48 AM
quote:
...so im a bit unsure on what you are saying about the first gear only map. heres what i understand:
my ecu has different maps in the lower gears to limit power, and you can put in a map (from another version of ecu) to basically make it the same power output in every gear correct?...
What I was talking about was specifically the first gear ignition map. The A1/2 use the same ignition map for all gears. The B1/2 added a first gear only map. Comparing the two you see they messed with the timing between about 3000 and 6000 rpm in the first third of throttle travel in the first gear map. It seemed obvious to me it was put there so numb nut owners wouldn't flip the bike in first.
The funny thing is the A1/2 all gear maps look more like the B restricted 1st gear map than the none restricted 2-6 gear map. It appears in the early models the only way to make 1st 'safe' was to limit all the gears because an all gear map was all they had.
In Supra's ECU I copied his 2-6 gear map into his 1st gear map. On an A1/2 I would suggest smoothing out the 3k-6k hump in the map
So in the A2 there is only an all gear map for ignition. The same is true with all the big 3D maps. Fuel, Air, Ignition. However there are a lot of smaller 2D maps that tweak the ignition and fuel that are selected by gear. In some all the gears are the same, others 5 and 6 have higher numbers than the lower gears while still others 4 and 5 have the highest. I haven't had time to post these in the enginuity definition for all the different years yet let alone figure them all out.
But all these gear maps have A and B groups.
So for now we can even out the ignition map, up the rpm, remove the speed limit. Then later this spring when we have more of the maps figured out you can reprogram it again. Now that Entropy has a modified ECU to play with I think we will make some progress with figuring out the fuel maps etc.
As for your understanding on how the map select works that is correct. Turn off the key, flip the switch, Turn key on different map.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted November 03, 2007 08:51 AM
ok sounds good, thx for the explanation!, i really love learning about this stuff
i have noticed that the bike really takes off as it hits 7000 rpm or so, if the smoothing out of the ignition helps boost power below this, im sure i would just love it :P might not help on the track as rpms stay way up there, but it would be great having extra power down low on the street. im probly going to set up my bike about 4 over for street use and about 9 over for track use, so wheelies wont be too out of hand. however raising the rev limit will be very helpful on the track. especially if nitrous was being used. hitting the limiter on spray wouldnt be a good thing :P without all the fancy electronics, the extended ecu makes the regular dry kits a bit safer i would guess
just thinking out loud, would the 2d maps that change with the gear have anything to do with ram air?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted November 03, 2007 11:45 AM
150 bucks? SHEESH I'm IN!!! How do I take the ECU out and get it to you?
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
|
posted November 03, 2007 12:34 PM
its in the tail section, unplug it from the harness
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
|
posted November 03, 2007 01:49 PM
Its under the tool / storage tray. Its inside a rubber housing that is connected to the fender by four little rubber tabs. Just pull on it to detach it from the fender.
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